The State Of Play Between Pakistan, India And China

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The State Of Play Between Pakistan, India And China
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Relations between China and Pakistan appear to be increasingly warm, as India and Pakistan continue to suffer a difficult relationship. The interplay between the three regional powers is becoming increasingly complicated given the varying interests of each state.

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Border and economic corridor impact China-India relations

According to NDTV, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi has requested a clarification of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), which separates Indian territory from Chinese lands. However Beijing has almost completely rejected his proposal. Officials in Beijing would prefer a pact with India regarding a code of conduct rather than any clarification of the LAC, which the Chinese say has proved difficult in the past.

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“If we find that the clarification of the LAC is a building block, then we should go ahead. But if we find that it is a stumbling block, it could complicate the situation further. We have to be careful,” said Huang Xilian, Deputy Director General of the Asian Affairs at the Chinese Foreign Ministry.

Another issue is China’s proposal for a $46 billion economic corridor through the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. India’s External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj revealed that India has spoke to China about its concerns. “We lodged a protest calling the Chinese ambassador. We lodged a protest through our Ambassador there (Beijing). And when the Prime Minister had gone there (to China), he talked about it very firmly. He raised it very strongly that it is not acceptable to us what you are talking about China-Pakistan economic corridor going to PoK,” said Swaraj.

Kashmir and South China Sea cause friction

However China does not see any need for the economic corridor to take on any political significance. “We know the concern of the Indian side and those projects are not political projects. They are all for livelihood of people. There is no commercial action by China in that part of the region,” said Mr Huang.

“There is this kind of action for many years. We do not side with any party on the issue of the territory. We have been advocating that the disputes should be solved through concerned parties through peaceful means. The kind of commercial activities do not affect the position of China on the claimants of the territory,” he said.

Relations between India and China are complicated further due to ongoing territorial disputes in the South China Sea. China claims almost all of the sea, but Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan all object. Although India has no claim of its own, the participation of India’s state-owned oil company ONGC in exploration work in oil wells claimed by Vietnam has provoked opposition from China.

China sees double standards at work here given the controversy over their investment in the Kashmir, while India claims that these commercial projects should not be politicized.

China and Pakistan enjoy increasingly warm relationship

At the same time, China and Pakistan appear to be enjoying an increasingly warm relationship. As well as the economic corridor, China supports Pakistan’s application to join the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), according to The Nation.

Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hua Chunying said, “China has noted Pakistan’s aspirations for NSG membership. Pakistan has taken steps towards its mainstreaming into the global non-proliferation regime. We support Pakistan’s engagement with the NSG.”

The current consensus among member states is that the signing of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) is an essential requirement for a new member of the NSG, but China believes that Pakistan and other non-NPT states should be allowed into the group.

War of words continues between India and Pakistan

All the while, India and Pakistan are locked in an increasingly fierce war of words. Pakistani Minister for Defence Khawaja Asif has claimed that India’s Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) has been fomenting disturbances in Pakistan, reports The Daily Times. The Minister alleges that India’s intelligence agency started causing trouble within Pakistan after Islamabad launched Operation Zarb-e-Azb against various militant groups.

Asif claims to have evidence of RAW involvement in the restive province of Balochistan, and suggested that India is sponsoring terrorism.

These accusations are part of an increasingly serious war of words between the two neighbors, and saber-rattling rhetoric has become common. Reportedly, Pakistani General Raheel Sharif told his countrymen not to worry about Indian posturing, because “we know how to respond befittingly to any aggression from India.”

Kashmir continues to be a huge obstacle to relations between the two countries, and General Sharif admitted that Kashmir is an “unfinished agenda.” He maintains that Pakistan and Kashmir are “inseparable.” His pronouncements provoked a strong reaction from Indian Minister of State for External Affairs, V K Singh. “I think this is the notion they will keep harbouring. They can keep harbouring that wrong notion. It will not make any difference to actual conditions,” said Singh.

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While studying economics, Brendan found himself comfortably falling down the rabbit hole of restaurant work, ultimately opening a consulting business and working as a private wine buyer. On a whim, he moved to China, and in his first week following a triumphant pub quiz victory, he found himself bleeding on the floor based on his arrogance. The same man who put him there offered him a job lecturing for the University of Wales in various sister universities throughout the Middle Kingdom. While primarily lecturing in descriptive and comparative statistics, Brendan simultaneously earned an Msc in Banking and International Finance from the University of Wales-Bangor. He's presently doing something he hates, respecting French people. Well, two, his wife and her mother in the lovely town of Antigua, Guatemala. <i>To contact Brendan or give him an exclusive, please contact him at theflask@gmail.com</i>
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71 COMMENTS

  1. Mr.Neeru, Who cares? What is your status it is not our concern. The only thing is stop inter fairing in Pakistan. We know very well how peaceful your India is how militant is my Pak?

  2. Thanks for enlightening us with history as taught in Pak schools. I do not need to give proof about muslim maturity and intelligence from Pakistan to Libya.(Count all the countries ruled by brilliant Muslims).

  3. enough for you to read. We don’t have to prove ourselves!! Whole world knows a difference between a militant pakistan and a peaceful India!! Ameen, khudaafeez!!

  4. wars-

    ndo-Pakistani War of 1947

    Indo-Pakistani War of 1965

    Indo-Pakistani War of 1971

    Indo-Pakistani War of 1999.

    The above are the major conflicts fought between the Republic of India and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

    The Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 ended in a stalemate because PM Nehru of India – the idealist he was – chose to pursue the idealistic path of using diplomatic means through the then newly created United Nations Organisation to try and force Pakistan to withdraw its irregular forces from the just asceded princely state of Jammu & Kashmir. However, UNSC resolutions 39 and 47 were not conclusively in India’s favour and Pakistan refused to abide by these resolutions. Thus a stalemate ensued and Pakistan now controls a part of J&K called “Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK)” in India and the Indian Kashmir is called “Indian Occupied Kashmir” in Pakistan. This problem is one of the main simmering issue between both the nations. Progress in other areas have been impossible until now mainly due to this core issue remaining unresolved.

    The Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 too, can be considered a military stalemate. After India’s debacle in the Sino-Indian war of 1962, Pakistani leaders presumed that the conventional Indian military superiority was a myth and that India as a state was militarily weak. Therefore, they decided to use a combination of direct military assaults along with coercive diplomacy to force India to part with Kashmir. The war began following Pakistan’s Operation Gibraltar, which was designed to infiltrate irregular “Jihadi” forces into Jammu and Kashmir to precipitate an insurgency against rule by India. The five-month war caused thousands of casualties on both sides. It ended in a United Nations (UN) mandated ceasefire and the subsequent issuance of the Tashkent Declaration.

    Despite the declaration of a ceasefire, India was perceived as the victor due to its success in halting the Pakistan-backed insurgency in Kashmir. However, At the conclusion of the war, many Pakistanis considered the performance of their military to be positive. 6 September is celebrated as Defence Day in Pakistan, in commemoration of the successful defence of Lahore against the Indian army. The performance of the Pakistani Air Force, in particular, was praised.

    The Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, however is one of India’s finest military moments.The Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 was the direct military confrontation between India and Pakistan during the Bangladesh Liberation War in 1971. Indian, Bangladeshi and international sources consider the beginning of the war to have been Operation Chengiz Khan, when Pakistan launched pre-emptive air strikes on 11 Indian airbases on 3 December 1971, leading to India’s entry into the war of independence in East Pakistan on the side of Bangladeshi nationalist forces, and the commencement of hostilities with West Pakistan. Lasting just 13 days, it is considered to be one of the shortest wars in history – rivaled only by the Six Day war between the Arab’s and the Israelis.

    The war effectively came to an end after the Eastern Command of the Pakistani Armed Forces signed the Instrument of Surrender, on 16 December 1971 in Dhaka, marking the liberation of the new nation of Bangladesh. East Pakistan had officially seceded from Pakistan on 26 March 1971. Between 90,000 and 93,000 members of the Pakistan Armed Forces including paramilitary personnel were taken as Prisoners of War by the Indian Army.It is estimated that between 2,000,000 and 3,000,000 civilians were killed in Bangladesh

    The last one is technically not a war – atleast not according to both the countries. The term “armed conflict” or “skirmish” is more preferred. Officially none either of the 2 countries’ forces have crossed each others’ International boundary line or the Line of Control (LoC). The Pakistanis claim that the war was actually a “spontaneous” response by the Kashmiri people against alleged Indian oppression. However, over the course of the war, this argument lost its ground even amongst Pakistan’s closest allies – the US or PRC.

    The cause of the war was the infiltration of Pakistani soldiers and Kashmiri militants into positions on the Indian side of the LOC, which serves as the de factoborder between the two states. During the initial stages of the war, Pakistan blamed the fighting entirely on independent Kashmiri insurgents, but documents left behind by casualties such as “dogtags” and other ID documentations and later statements by Pakistan’s Prime Minister and Chief of Army Staff showed involvement of Pakistani paramilitary forces. The awarding of military honours and medals to those who fought in this conflict was the final nail on the coffin. The war is one of the most recent examples of high altitude warfare in mountainous terrain, which posed significant logistical problems for the combating sides. To date, it is also the only instance of direct,conventional warfare between nuclear states (i.e., those possessing nuclear weapons). India had conducted its first successful test in 1974; Pakistan, which had been developing its nuclear capability in secret since around the same time, conducted its first known tests in 1998, just two weeks after a second series of tests by India. India did reoccupy the captured posts and Pakistan was diplomatically isolated. Pakistan’s military objectives too failed to materialise. So, although Pakistan managed to achieve total strategic and tactical surprise in the initial stages of the conflict, it failed to achieve its larger, long term objectives of holding on to that occupied territory. Therefore, this pseudo-war or conflict can be considered as a victory for India, albeit a costly one.

    Written 18 Jun, 2014. 2,063 views. Asked to answer by Anonymous.

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    More Answers Below. Related Questions

    How many wars have been started because of one single misunderstanding. Do you believe in war or diplomacy?

    How many cricket ODI matches has Pakistan played on Friday and how many of them have they won?

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    Kunal Kaul

    Kunal Kaul, Smart-Ass

    2 upvotes by Abhishek Sharma and Ajinkya Punwatkar

    The score is 4-0 till now!!

    47,65,71 and kargil!

    Well there is no possibility of Pakistan winning against India in a war alone!! Today or tomorrow!

    Simply comparing

    India has more manpower, resources and mainly the control over Indus which can dry up Pakistan in a week!!

    If China and Pakistan together against India alone, India loses badly!

    But then if China takes arms, the US and Russia will teach them a lesson which they are anyways itching to do (they just need a spark)

    So essentially India wins again :)

    Cheers!

    EDIT: I would like to add, let’s say Pakistan nukes, Bangalore for example! The US economy will face a major blow!! Many companies will lose the majority of their employees! Forcing them to take action even if they are abstaining!

    Written 6 Jun, 2014. 768 views.

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    Abhishek Sharma

    Abhishek Sharma, following armchair generals in my arm… (more)

    2 upvotes by Peter Norris and Ravi Patodiya

    Thanks for the A2A, Anon!

    Wars till now and their results:-

    1947- India won

    1965- India won

    1971- India won

    1999- India won

    Of course Pakistani school textbooks will beg to differ.

    As per current situation, a war would result in an Indian win. But, a war now would mean irreparable damage to both economies, and also some waves in the world economy.

    But apart from this, one must know that India has a lit more to lose than Pakistan. A war now would serve no purpose to either.

    Written 7 Jun, 2014. 647 views. Asked to answer by Anonymous.

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  5. from wiki- about rape in Pakistan- India has the same problem but in India culprits get caught and people stands for any rape victims- US, Canada, china are other top country have highest rate in rape-

    Pakistan[edit]

    Main article: Rape in Pakistan

    Rape in Pakistan has been notable, and continues to be a tool for suppressing women in the country.[172] One of the notable cases, in which Uzma Ayub, a 16 year old girl, was abducted by a soldier and policeman, she was repeatedly raped by several persons which included an army official and a policemen. Her brother was murdered. In one case, a teenage girl was burnt alive, as she resisted the rape.[173]

    In another notable case a woman was raped on the orders of a village council, which functions as a lower level judiciary. In 2002, 30-year-old Mukhtaran Bibi was gang raped on the orders of the village council as an “honor rape” after allegations that her 12-year-old brother had had sexual relations with a woman from a higher caste.[174] Although custom would expect her to commit suicide after being raped,[175][176][177] Mukhtaran spoke up, and pursued the case, which was picked up by both domestic and international media. On 1 September 2002, an anti-terrorism court sentenced 6 men (including the 4 rapists) to death for rape. In 2005, the Lahore High Court cited “insufficient evidence” and acquitted 5 of the 6 convicted, and commuted the punishment for the sixth man to a life sentence. Mukhtaran and the government appealed this decision, and the Supreme Court suspended the acquittal and held appeal hearings.[178] In 2011, the Supreme Court too acquitted the accused.

    Most of the cases in Pakistan results as marriage between the culprit and the victim to keep the honor of victim’s family or as suicide of the culprit. There were many cases in Pakistan which do not get much media attention as much as India get always. The girls from the minority religions are more vulnerable to such assault and rapes, especially of Christians and Hindus for the forcible conversion of the religion. [179]

  6. from the very reliable sources data are being produced- wiki and world bank-

    India

    Country Indicators

    GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)

    $1,530 2012 $1,570 2013

    GDP growth (annual %)

    5.1% 2012 6.9% 2013

    Population, total

    1,236.7 2012 1,252.12013

    Poverty headcount ratio at $1.25 a day (PPP) (% of population)

    32.7% 2009 23.6% 2011

    Pakistan

    Country Indicators

    GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)

    $1,250 2012 $1,360 2013

    GDP growth (annual %)

    3.5% 2012 4.4% 2013

    Population, total

    179.2 2012 182.1 2013

    Poverty headcount ratio at $1.25 a day (PPP) (% of population)

    17.2% 2007 12.7% 2010

    21.9% people out of 1.2 billion of Indians lived below poverty line of $1.25 in 2011-2012.[8]

    In other words, India with 17.5% of total world’s population, had 20.6% share of world’s poorest in 2011.[7][16]

    National poverty lines comparison

    (Note: this is historical data, not current)

    Country Poverty line

    (per day) Year Reference

    India

    32 rupees ($0.53) 2007 [24]

    Argentina

    6 pesos ($0.74) 2012 [31]

    China

    3.49 yuan ($0.56) 2010 [32]

    Nigeria

    65 naira ($0.4) 2011 [33]

    United States

    $13[34]

    2005 [35][36]

    Comparison with alternate international definitions

    India determines household poverty line by summing up the individual per capita poverty lines of the household members. This practice is similar to many developing countries, but different from developed countries such as the United States that adjust poverty line on an incremental basis per additional household member. For example, in the United States, the poverty line for a household with just one member was set at $11,670 per year for 2014, while it was set at $23,850 per year for a 4-member household (or $5963 per person for the larger household).[36] The rationale for the differences arise from the economic realities of each country. In India, households may include surviving grandparents, parents and children. They typically do not incur any or significant rent expenses every month particularly in rural India, unlike housing in mostly urban developed economies. The cost of food and other essentials are shared within the household by its members in both cases. However, a larger portion of a monthly expenditure goes to food in poor households in developing countries,[37] while housing, conveyance and other essentials cost significantly more in

    ………………

    Poverty in Pakistan

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A slum in Karachi, Pakistan with an opensewer running along the lane.

    Poverty in Pakistan has fallen dramatically, independent bodies supported estimates of a considerable fall in the statistic by the 2007-08 fiscal year, when it was estimated that 17.2% of the total population lived below the poverty line.[1] The declining trend in poverty as seen in the country during the 1970s and 1980s was reversed in the 1990s by poor federal policies and rampant corruption.[2] This phenomenon has been referred to as the “poverty bomb”.[3] In 2001, the government was assisted by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in preparing the Interim Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper that suggests guidelines to reduce poverty in the country.[4]

    Pakistan fares better than India and Bangladesh on most poverty markers such as the UN MPI index and its poverty rate is below those nations.[5]

    As of 2009, Pakistan’s Human Development Index (HDI) is 0.572, higher than that of nearby Bangladesh’s 0.543, which was formerly a part of the country itself. Pakistan’s HDI still stands lower than that of neighbouring India’s at 0.612.[6]

    According to the HDI, 60.3% of Pakistan’s population lives on under $2 a day, compared to 79% in nearby India and 81.3% in nearby Bangladesh,the lowest rate in South Asia after Sri Lanka[7] and some 28.6% live under $1 a day, compared to 24.9% in India and 49.6% in Bangladesh[8]

    Wealth distribution in Pakistan is highly uneven, with the top 10% of the population earning 27.6% and the bottom 10% earning only 4.1% of the income[9] According to the United Nations Human Development Report, Pakistan’s human development indicators, especially those for women, fall significantly below those of countries with comparable levels of per-capita income. Pakistan also has a higher infant mortality rate (88 per 1000) than the South Asian average (83 per 1000).[10]

    …………

    from your own news-

    Earning $2 a day, 60.19% population live below poverty line

    • By Ijaz Kakakhel

    • June 03, 2014

    • 2 COMMENTS

  7. read the facts from world bank- coming more facts-stay tunned-

    India

    Country Indicators

    GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)

    $1,530 2012 $1,570 2013

    GDP growth (annual %)

    5.1% 2012 6.9% 2013

    Population, total

    1,236.7 2012 1,252.12013

    Poverty headcount ratio at $1.25 a day (PPP) (% of population)

    32.7% 2009 23.6% 2011

    Pakistan

    Country Indicators

    GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$)

    $1,250 2012 $1,360 2013

    GDP growth (annual %)

    3.5% 2012 4.4% 2013

    Population, total

    179.2 2012 182.1 2013

    Poverty headcount ratio at $1.25 a day (PPP) (% of population)

    17.2% 2007 12.7% 2010

  8. THANK FOR YOUR REPLY.

    CURRENTLY, AMERICA HAS THE WORLD LARGEST LAND BASE LASERBEAM LABORATORY IN THE WORLD.

    FROM EARTH THEY CAN DESTROY ALL 3,000 OR 12,000 SATELLITES IN ORBIT AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT.

    THESE MEAN ALL RUSSIAN AND CHINESE SATELLITES IN OUTERSPACE IS OBSOLETE DURING THE THIRD WORLD WAR.
    (OUTDATED)

    SYCHRONISED IS THE BEST WORD TO SAY WHEN ALL SATELLITES DISAPPEAR FROM OUTERSPACE.

  9. Mr.Neeru…History is based on figures and facts, history is not about what Mr.Neeru or any other Indian said in Pakistan jealousy. Yes Pakistan have do sects and there are some problems. We accept it, we don’t claim that every thing is fine here. There is not a single country in the world which don’t have problems, its all around the world. Bin laden story is controversial, Mr.Hersh who recently have written an article, you can read it. he has claimed about the knowledge of USA about the OBL existence in Pakistan and that knowledge was provided Pakistan to USA. You claim and others about “Muslims are terrorists”, comment with logic. You should search on the web about to five countries which are effected by terrorism. All theses countries are Muslims, there is not a single non-muslim country is on the list. What is this? A person who is victim is declared as convicted? There is no more rubbish claim than this.
    Pakistan never lost any war against India, other than 1971. In 1965 and Kargil war, India has learned the lesson very well and have not courage to face Pakistan from front. That’s why they are promoting terrorism in Pakistan to weaken it from inside. In 1971, Indian conspiracy succeeded and they broke Pakistan. Even Mr.Modi have admitted that “He and millions others Indians contributed in 1971 to break Pakistan, he admitted this in his last visit to Bangladesh. Your Defense Minster has stated recently that India will counter terrorism by terrorism, presenting the true picture of Indian mentality.
    Worse part at your end is, you consider the opponent view as propaganda? Mr.Modi was CM of Gujrat when Muslims were killed, if he was innocent, did he resign? or he punish the culprits? He did not do any thing like that. In your country Muslims are treated badly, example is Gujrat incident, people of Kashmir, Babri Mosque etc.
    Indian development consists on the following facts:
    1-Indian’s 30% population is below poverty line
    2-“20% don’t have toilet facilities”
    3-Higher rape rate, women are raped even in buses.
    4-Hindus have casts which are UN-touchables even at this modern era

    Theses are only some facts out of total, which i have given. Remaining are better known to you false claimer of development. We love Pakistan, and don’t want compare with any country, and specially not India. Yes we do have problems, but we its not your duty to tell us. We can and we will correct by ourselves. You put your attention at your own home and stop interfering in our internal matters at all levels.

  10. India or any other country is not needed to kill Pakistan. Pakistanis are doing a good job of doing that themselves for the last 70 years.
    They already did it once in 1971.

  11. ok go read the history of slaughtering people. we have many Pakistani friends they tell us the story about the situation in Pakistan . you guys have many sects and they are not treated like humans . don’t be ignorant. and read the facts. why you were hiding and protected bin laden who killed thousands of innocents. Pakistan and all Muslim countries are terrorists from century . whole world knows. Muslims are fighting everywhere!! when they travel they are in red alert all the time. Indians Hindus population is 90%? go read statistics. in Pakistan minority is only 13%. division time Hindu population was 13% and shrank to 1%. in india it was 13% and increased to 26 %. Google accepted the fault that was the data error and they put bill gates and other top ranking people in the criminal link. I too work for Google in U.S. i know how religious fundamentalist like you people gets treated in U.S. better change ur mentality otherwise do will be kicked out from everywhere soon. your many politicians killed many thousands of people in your country. musuraff did jargon war unfortunately by default indian army defeated you and that war killed many innocent people. all wars initiated by Pakistan and we defeated u all the times. Modi didn’t. kill any one it was just a propaganda agains him. I don’t have to say anything here and whole world knows a difference between india and Pakistan and indian and Pakistani!! I know your ethics very well that’s why you kept your name as name ??

  12. Sir, it’s not just me who says Gandhi and Nehru were Visionaries, the entire world says that. The proof is in the pudding. Mention their names in any country in the world, including the entire Middle-east and people recognize them instantly. Try asking someone outside of Pakistan, who is Jinnah ? You can see where India is today and where it is headed because of the Vision of these men. Now also see where Pakistan is.
    Jinnah was a great constitutional Lawyer, a great person, honest to the bone, but his demand for a separate electorate for Muslims was not a good Idea for Nehru and Gandhi. The two-nation theory that he used as justification for dividing India fell on its face when East Pakistan decided to go their separate way in 1971.
    Nehru and Gandhi wanted a democracy where every person had the right to be an equal part of the society, with no special treatment for any religious group.
    I want you to know I am not a Hindu (and there’s nothing wrong being one)and I don’t mean disrespect for anyone. Just stating the facts.

  13. Who is “they” by “our land” you mean hindu land. You are exactly right, Jinah knew that under a free India Muslims will be abused & prosecuted to the max. Hindus & muslims were living together under a third party rulers, the Hindus don’t have enough maturity or intelligence to rule over muslims. The mess was created because of Nehru & Gindi’s bigotted politics. You muslims were the conquers, ruled over India for 400 years the “land” as you call it belonged to muslims , they allowed the Hindus to live there. And Jinah & Liiaquat Ali Khan were very generous to let you have the larger part.

  14. Nehru & Gandi were two biggotted idiots, visionaries do not create conflicts, it was their politics that created the conflict that ended up in separation . The stupid hindus still think they were heros.

  15. I feel bad for Pakistan, when the reality (China) actually bites it, and they have nowhere else to turn to (No other capable country to help them). I hope the common man in Pakistan does not suffer. As of now for Pakistan, the only ray of hope, seemingly shining bright light is China. I pity the plight of the Pakistan, the day this alliance from China, takes turn to its actual dark-side. What or who do you think will stop china from snatching the already disputed PoK from the grabs of Pakistan (May be India, but that’s a different story). What if china forces Pakistan to launch Nukes towards India from Pakistan, either by providing false intelligence during a conflict between India and Pakistan, or just by encouraging the non-state rogue elements in Pakistan to get access and launch one against India. India will be left with no choice but to respond massively, taking big chunks of Pakistan out. The world might be angry with India and pity Pakistan. But China will laugh from the sidelines. China is neither friend of India and nor of Pakistan. The only difference is India knows it, Pakistan is plainly living in a bliss (Ignorance is bliss). China just want to use Pakistan like the Western world did for many years. Now it is the East’s turn to Use Pakistan by showing deep pockets and paying a few bucks. Pakistan’s best bet would be to resolve border issue peacefully with India. It will help it focus on development of Pakistan and improve the living standards of Pakistani people in general. Good trade relationships with India would be mutually beneficial and will keep the Monkeys(Like China) which would like to use it for evil purposes think twice.

  16. If you are pakistani,take care of pakistan and don’the put your dirty nose in Hindustan or India . we,Indians are capable of our kashmir state,it’s people’s ,their development and last but not least safety,security.
    India has millions of muslims, why are you only worried about a few muslims in our Kashmir state.Actually you people from pakistan ,are good to provoke problems, and a big liar.All pakistanis ,world &Indian people including our muslims does not need your useless comments or involvement, mind your own buisness.
    Pakistan is a failed country.

  17. “India does not play by the rules” is that why the entire world, including ALL Muslim countries are with India and against “brother” Pakistan ?

  18. Neeru, I don’t want to sound like I hate Muslims or any other religious denomination, but a gorilla might better understand what you are trying to say. Don’t try explaining to a person of Stone Age intellectual level.

  19. Here is what irks me when ignorant people speak of kashmir. It may be a muslim majority state but that doesnt mean it is 99% muslim and 1% others. For eg. 50.1% is also considered a majority. Which mean that the rest( half of the the population isnt muslim).

    Kashmir has Muslims, Hindus, Buddists and sikhs within its folds. Interestingly this myriad of religious diversity only exists on the Indian side of Kashmir. Despite what pakistani’s may think of the Indian state and its army it has managed to maintain the diversity of the state(notwithstanding the exodus of the Hindu Pandits from the valley).

    India wont give into kashmir beacuse for one it doesn’t believe in the two nation theory. Pakistan cant accept kashmir as India’s because it still does. It uses kashmir to justify its existence, vast army and mind boggling amount of hate targeting minorities.(In this case Hindus but also applies to Christians, ahmedis and other minor muslim sects)

    People keep speaking of a plebiscite in Indian kashmir without understanding the conditions required for it. Mainly that, India and pakistan have to retire their armies from the region for the vote to happen. Now, unless you live in some kind of fantasy land neither of these two countries will do that for security reasons.

    No one wants to be pragmatic in their solutions. Lets look at it another way with recent events in focus. With this new project of Pak-China corridor, does anyone in their right mind think that pakistan is going to grant the Kashmirs freedom from POK.

    Kashmir will unfortunately remain a divided state- like punjab and Bengal. India and Pakistan( and China) will keep their respective bits. No one is wrenching control from the other. That is the truth which every Indian and Pakistani has to deal with and accept. The sooner, the better for the rest of us.

  20. I was born in 1953,six years after Pakistan and India became independent. The last person to visit forefathers land ,was my grand father ,when he was in his 20’s, in early 1900’s.He went there to pray on the grave of his own father and other family members . Our family ‘s plight did not start in 1947.There were no easy communications in those times and I wonder if there is any survivor from my family still living in surrounding areas .I am the 4rth generation out of that area and fast approaching to the end. Is there any easy solution ?.
    No doubt roots of Pandit’s is also Kashmir and depriving them their rights is totally unjustified. Same way we have suffered .I am glad that you are from same origin and can understand the suffering of the ordinary kashmiris.

  21. because they never wanted to divide India, it was our land!! tell me if u have a house and some someone wants to break into 2 parts. will you be silence or protest ? think logically. zinah was power hungry and he knew that he can be in power only when start a slogan against a separate state of Muslims! and that created a huge mess, people were surprised that how come we lived many years together with peace and harmony and now talking about a Shepard state! fought for freedom struggle together ! it was a united india. and then zinah s divide and rule created mass level of mistrust among 2 communities. people lost the faith. killings happened, mount Beaton said in his memoir that if I would have known that zinah was dying from cancer U would not have divided india! And then where is Pakistanis land ? all lands belonged to india. Gamdhiji and Nehru were generous that gave you large part of india. either Decan or Kashmir were part of india or will remain for india forever. if you a land and someone claims that give me part of land because I want that land , will you be silence will protest?

  22. It is good to know that your forefathers were from Anantnag. And I hope you are still keeping your roots there. Let me ask you a simple question. Would you live the era of 1947 under the boundaries of J& K state as dictated at that time under Maharajah Hari Singh? If the answer is yes for people with your thinking then there is high possibility a solution can be found.

  23. mr so and so, Gujrat incident was really bad for the country like india where we believe in secularism. It started by Muslim mob killed pilgrimage more than 2000 in a train when they were coming home Gujrat . And then that was the reaction from Hindu side and riot was part of that reaction. but while indian society stood up and so many cases were filed. many people got life in prison . Narendra Modi was cm that time and it happened during his time. it was a wrong ropaganda against Modi and he was in a charge. you know, my grand parents and great grand parents told the stories eye witness, how brutally conversion happened. in Hinduism there is no conversion. but in in Islam there is. we see and hear everyday. you guys are having many children from many wives. that s your fundamental thing to make sure have more marriages more wives and many children so that have more population. we Hindus are very open modern minded not phanatic religious by mind. we think about the world and society where population is the big concern. your population is too high and creating more jihadis and terrorist all over the world. look at everywhere ?? people are well aware that who is creating such mess. have you seen any indian around the world terrorist?? u don’t know many of your forefathers converted to Islam due to barbaric acts. have you heard about Aurangzeb or many moughals rulers barbarism? they invaded india. but in we lived with thousands of years. and both religion flourished in india. Hinduism was the foundation of the religion who embraced other religion and gave other religion opportunity to grow. under hindusism parenthood, bhudhisim sikhisism, Jainism grew. we feel very proud of that. India is the place in the entire world that gave opportunity to all religion to grow. we live in very harmony, when we get up every day in the morning, we hear azaan, bells ringing in the temples, prayers in the churches, Sabad bani in guru dwarfs and many more simultaneously and peacefully!! We are proud about ourselves but you guys introspect yourself! all religion teach peace, please teach peace and have respect in each and everyone. no one is superior . believe in equality . that can bring peace on the earth!!!

  24. Nehru and Gandhi were visionaries. They could see what Jinnah could not. They knew, that Pakistan will be a failed state. Abdul Kalam Azad was another visionary. Read his book or listen to his speech on YouTube. It is amazing he predicted with precision what has been happening in Pakistan for the last 70 years so he opposed the formation of Pakistan. The breakup of any nation on the basis of religion is not good by any means.
    You people created Pakistan but could not stay united for 25 years. Now you want Kashmir. Kashmiris don’t want to be a part of Pakistan. They can see the “success” that you have been so far.

  25. Mr.Neeru…Please tell us what happened in Indian Gujrat when Mr.Modi was CM. Thousands of Muslims were killed in your great so called democratic India. If Kashmirs are not willing to go to Pakistan then why you Pakistan Flag waving in Sir-Nagar by Kashmirs?
    No one can be converted forcefully , if so has happened then people can again convert to their original religion at the end of Mughal Era. Faith cannot not changed forcefully? Such stories are created by people like you and are baseless. You should read the history books and see how Islam is spread from Middle east to all over the world. It is still spreading in current and modern time, its all about the teachings of Islam. These teachings are inspiring, You can check the statistics that Islam is second largest religion of the world and will be the largest one in 2080 according to a recent survey.
    People like you have no knowledge about Islam, even you don’t know the a b c of our religion and claims rubbish stories.

  26. My family belong to Kashmir too ,who suffered by the hands of Hindus and Maharaja who confiscated our land .My fore fathers were forced to leave their houses and properties in Anantnag .We didn’t help the British and the result is we were deprived of our land . We are still waiting for justice from UNO ,because indian occupiers are still continuing the brutalities to date.This occupation will have to end for the peace in south asia.

  27. “India will not tolerate the breakup of the country. and that the whole basis of enemosity against Pakistan. Nehru & Gandi tried their best to kill pakistan at birth, but did not succeed, the effort goes on!!!!

  28. No the whole world does not believe that Kashmir is a part of India, only feeble minded Indians believe that.
    It does not matter how it happened, when it happened, why it happened , who did it, how it was done- the fact is that in 1947 there was a majority of muslims in Kashmir, those were the rules.
    But India is not known for playing by the rules.

  29. Degradation of society? Under who’s standards? Being under western powers infusions? who is not? India is given a free run of of jail card for a short while so some can use it against others. I understand if you don’t get it yet and pointing finger on others you write. Tell me what you are doing. You have responded like any other towards my writing and then self proclaimed success of holding jobs. I suggest go back 15 years and see when it all ignited. I could bet you or anyone pull out any resume of your kind it will be 95% of lies because you know the time difference and no one gonna call at night to India to find out the truth. So you are talking to a guy who knows too much about your kind.

  30. mr name, conversion happened forcefully, killed masses by Muslim moughals, barbarism was there and still exist in most of the phantic Muslim world! go read history books. We Hindus or Indians never believe in killings!! if indian Muslims are supressed then we didn’t have many Muslim presidents, top burocrats , politicians, actor, actresses , musician, singers, writers name it!! we are proud Indians ! how many are in Pakistan ? just name it on your fingers! none! Look inside the Pakistan , all minorities are getting killed or converted! not a single Kashmiri wants to go to Pakistan! ask them. I’m from Kashmir! no one wants go to religious, phanatic, failed country Pakistan . you hear voice from all terrorists are in Kashmir backed up by you Pakistani militants, talibanies, armies, or hafeez dared or etc! they are funded by Pakistani and whole world knows about that. Kashmir is integral part of india and will remain in india forever!!

  31. Here are the answers to your ill informed comments.
    How is it that where ever Muslims are in minority they demand equal rights but when they are in majority they want to subjugate the minority religions and want them to have no rights, just like it is in all Muslim countries.
    The only reason Muslims in India or anywhere, are not progressing is the fact that their leaders have used their religion as a tool to discourage them from obtaining enlightenment thru education. Look at the other minorities in India. They are all thriving because they pursue education which brings enlightenment and translates into prosperity. At any rate, Muslims in India are by far better off than any Pakistani Muslim.

  32. Does not matter when they were converted , there were majority muslims in 1948. Shows how weak hunduism is that conversion changed the demography of the region. Who cares if India has more Muslims than Pakistan , that is not the issue here. By the way all Indian muslims are supressed, depressed and live in slums. Why don’t you tell the world the truth. Kashmir does not want to become an Indian slum.

  33. Here is a positive comment for your ignorant a$$. Learn to tell the truth otherwise cow mata will stop pissing on you. Sure the ” brave Indian army” has helped the Kashmiris by burinig down their houses, by rapping their women, by blocking all opportunities so the Kashmiris are starving. The uprising in Kashmir has nothing to do with Islam, it is the actions of the cowardly indian army and Indian government’s actions that are the problem. You have written a lot of words, using age old rehtoric from the media but there is no substance. Positive comment: learn something new, stop immitating others until you don’t know who you are.

  34. As I told you my forefathers lived in J& K state for a long time so it is quite obvious I hail from J& K state. We still own 100 acres of land out there in spite of the fact a large chunk of our land was taken away due to the policies of Indira Gandhi. More so my grandfather served as Colonel in the J& K state forces prior to 1947.

  35. Whatever negative comments given by our muslim and Pakistani readers here,however ,the truth of the matter is ,China is taking advantage of Indian and Pakistani hostility. Indian ,Kashmir state had democratic way elections performed in the end of 2014, and millions of muslims and hindu Indian men and women casted their votes .Now in Kashmir state BJP and PDP parties has a joint govt and a new muslim chief minister ,Mr Mufti ,who reports to Delhi central Mr Modi BJP govt .However there are few hundred Islamic extremist jihadists people in Kashmir state of India ,are waving ISIS black flags ,throwing large stones at local police ,and army injuring them and their vehicles,waving pakistani flags at Mr Mufti CM house These are not normal citizens and having separatist movements,in a criminal way.Therefore ,Indian army is needed there .These type of Islamist Terriorist leaders,and Islamic people correct place is only jails,either it is India or Gaza,or USA or Europe or Africa or rest of the world .Indian govt and brave Indian army has helped people of Kashmir in difficult times of Flood etc with money ,shelter,food ,medicines etc all the times.

  36. majoity was hindu pandits and converted by Mughuls like you guys!! Go read the history first!! You guys are brainwashed!! Pakistan was part of India’s land too. How kashmir was existing to pakistan?? Majority muslims doesn’t mean that will give that our part!! We have in India, more muslims than your Pakistan!!

  37. Let’s answer all your questions.
    ALL the Kashmiri’s are Indian and were actually Hindu’s in the first place. In fact ALL Muslims of the Indian Sub Continent were originally Hindu’s. All Muslim’s of the Indian sub continent are Indian’s first. Just as all people of the European continent are European FIRST and English, French,German or Dutch etc. second. Some Hindu’s converted to Muslim religion and that’s OK but it does not give them the right to demand a separate country now that they are Muslim. Kashmir has been a part of India for hundreds of years and that is how it will always be.
    The first pre-requisite of the UN resolution you are talking about also says that the Pakistani army must withdraw all its forces from occupied Kashmir before a plebiscite can be held. READ IT.
    India does not have to claim to be a democracy. The entire world sees it as such, except for some people like you whose thought process has been clouded by religious hate.
    India IS in fact a secular state. Again, the entire world recognizes that fact. That does not mean that it is a perfect system. But at least Muslims of different sect are not killing each other. In fact India is the safest place in the entire world, for any Muslim of any sect to live and thrive.
    If ever the Muslims in USA or Europe wanted to secede and form their own country I’m sure they would bring in their Army to crush that movement. India will not tolerate the breakup of the country. It happened once in 1947, and look what you have. A FAILED STATE. (It’s not just me saying this.The entire world is)

  38. very correct!! Im also a kashmiri pandit. When Pakistan India was divided at
    that time Kashmir was an independent princely state . The name of Kashmir comes
    from hindu and buddhist mythology books. Ancient time it was created by a Hindu
    Raja, Ashoka, later he converted to buddhism. At that time it was a purely a
    hindu and buddhist state. Then mugahals came and invaded Kashmir and forcefully
    converted people to Islam like they did for rest of India. Ancient time there
    were no muslims in India. All muslims you see in India, Pakistan, bangladesh
    were converted from Hindu to Muslims. At that time hindu raja was the king of
    Kashmir. Then after invasion by mughals situation got changed. But Britishers when
    they ruled India, liberated kashmir from the mughal invaders and again Kashmir
    was ruled by Hindu Raja. partition happened in India in 1947 with the ideology
    of two mindsets- secular indian ideology and Islamic ideology Pakistan .
    Kashmir was not interested at that time to merge with either India or pakistan.
    Patron happened, because go Zinnah super hungry Power mentality. Lord
    mountbaetan writes in his memoir that if he would have known that Zinah was
    suffering from Cancer-who died soon after portion wouldn’t have divided India.
    Then Pakistannis thought to invade kashmir and attacked on Kashmir. At that
    time it was under a hindu king. He requested to Nehru that I want to integrate
    kashmir with india and save kashmiries from the pakistan attacks. They signed
    the pacts and kashmir became the part of India. Indian troops sent to kashmir
    to help people of Kashmir. I’m telling you this because I’m a kashmiri pandit
    and my whole family suffered a lot. My dad, uncles and aunts are historians,
    social scientists, writers and journalists. No fake story about Kashmir!! Since
    then, Pakistan has been attacking to India to get Kashmir out of India. Muslims
    are majority in kashmir doesn’t mean that we give it to Pakistan!! India has
    more muslims than pakistan, should we give whole India to Pakistan? India never
    initiated any war from any country!! Pakistan initiated wars and got defeated
    all the time from India. Read true history Pakis!! When India divide at that
    time in Pakistan Hindu and other minority population was 15% and shrunk to 1%.
    And India, division time muslim population was 25% and increased to 33%? Indian
    muslims are peaceful and prosperous than pakistani muslims, and they believe in
    secular India!! We Indians don’t have to prove ourselves, whole world who’s
    about who is India and who is Pakistan!! A failed state, generated only
    terrorists and a sanchury of all dangerous criminals!! Don’t believe in Don’t
    believe in propaganda. We have many pakistani friends and they say that its all
    about their textbooks taught in Pakistan. Wrong history, benign kids minds that
    indian and mujahirs are our enemies, kill them and etc. Please don’t destroy
    your country, when we gave you that country it was so beautiful!! please change
    your mindsets otherwise, you are going to destroy your entire generation!!

  39. IF INDIA WANT TO WIN THE THIRD WORLD WAR THEN IT SHOULD GO FOR LASER WEAPONS.

    YOUTUBE
    ========

    The (500 Trillion Watt) Laser To End All Lasers! – How Science Changed Our World – BBC One=AuH500GFrcc

    Nuclear Fusion 500 Terawatt Laser at the National Ignition Facility==4Cb7iqaN91c

  40. You are obviously an Indian and hiding these facts:
    The Majority of Kashmiris are muslims and they never wanted to live with India
    According to A UN Resolution Kasmiris have the right to choose between Pakistan or India, and there should be a Plebiscite in Kashmir but Indian government never honored the UN Resolution
    When Nehru the Prime Minister of India invaded Hyderabad Decan, he used the excuse that majority of Hyderabad people are Hindu and do not want to go with Pakistan although the Ruler of the State Nizam decided to go with Pakistan but when it came to Kashmir its the Ruler who decided ? double standards, hypocrisy
    If India is a democracy as they claim why don,t Kashmiris get the right to choose ?
    If India is a Secular state as they claim why there is 800,000 Indian military is present in Indian Occupied Kashmir and why they have killed more than 80,000
    Kashmiris since 1989 ?

  41. Good and sensible reply – My lineage too comes from Jammu region of the Kashmir and one point we conveniently ignore. When Pakistan attacked Kashmir in 1948 with the Tribals they had all the advantages one could ask – a quick army, a weak army to defend, a majority Muslim population they hoped will rejoice their enty and no main land India presence. Pakistan should have won in matter of days, right? – WRONG! They still lost and they did not lose because of their mistakes or inadequacy, they lost because in spite of majority Muslims in the state the people did not support Pakistan. No army in the World can repulse an attack if it has overwhelming support of the locals. Kashmiris in 1948 had already rejected Pakistan. The only question remained what they sought in India being part of the republic. It was Pakistan who started fomenting trouble in early ’80s and poisoned our land again. Thanks to some very awkward state governments too that helped Pakistani cause but true Kashmiris do not support Pakistan and frankly do not want to be part of Pakistan. Pakistan better solve the problems of Shias who live there in fear or Baloch who they massacre as if it is their hunting ground. Leave Kashmir and Kashmiris alone. We understand what Kashmiriyat is and we know how to preserve it.

  42. My forefathers lived in Jammu and Kashmir as far as I can remember and at least 150 years back if not more. The Jammu and Kashmir state was ruled by Maharajah Hari Singh till the date it was annexed to India. Pakistan occupied Kashmir was and is part of J&K state. British never messed with J&K state and kept that state intact. Although quite a few of my forefathers fought in the World War II as part of the British army. In 1948, Pakistan attacked J& K state and pillaged some of the prestigious Prince of Wales College in Baramullah. J& K State did have state forces but not strong enough in numbers to defend itself. J& K State signed a treaty with India to help them out. The only problem that occurred by formulating LOC was that J& K state never got their land back. China finds an opportune time to carve a divide between India and Pakistan and take the situation to their benefit. For this region to have some stability for the next 100 years, I suggest USA join hands with India fully otherwise War is inevitable within next 25 years if not sooner. Eventually Pakistan will come out a big loser because China to protect their business will seize the land and property in Pakistan.

  43. You do realize Pakistan survives on USA’s bail money and supplies, don’t you? Pakistan would be history without the US, China definitely wont get dragged into fights w/ India like it didn’t in 1971.

  44. Not sure why you use words like ‘stupid’ for all the Hindus in this decent forum. Since independence you have been ruled mostly by dictators, succumbed to every pressure from USA and Western powers, completely ruined your economy and an overall degradation of society – education, health, safety, security, etc. Still you only pay attention to your hawk media and military brasses always criticizing other than yourselves. You designate hindus as ‘stupid’ who are ‘not smart enough to hold a real job’ without realizing that Indians and Hindus are the most successful and affluent section in the American society. You are welcome to check the statistics yourself. It is high time for you to introspect before using foul language for others.

  45. India has never been happy with any good news coming from Pakistan. Because a weak Pakistan gives them propaganda points for elections there and let the Hindu fundamentalists grow more and terrorize the minorities there. A stronger Pakistan means more freedom movement in Indian occupied Kashmir where half a million Indian soldiers are treating the Muslims there worse than animals.
    So its normal for Indians to jump up and down after China and Pakistan co-operation in both economic and military field. While India gets constant full economic and military support from the West, Pakistan is still under arms embargo from the West. Its our right to prepare against Indian aggression as much as we can considering there is a Hindu fanatic government there now who is a threat to the regions peace.

  46. You should be thankful that every terrorist Pakistan nabs or kills, your hind gets safer in the US. If we keep them growing then they will come and get you, rather than asking about the peanuts which you are paying for the sacrifices of our men, you should be thankful that we are cleaning a mess created by your very own government and intelligence agencies.

  47. Britain is the culprit to blame for the Indo-Pakistan Kashmir and Sino-Indian border disputes. They left the borders of the 3 countries unresolved so as to maintain hostilities among them and thus, ensuring none of them will ever prosper.

  48. Hindu is hiding behind this Pete. They are extra ordinarily stupid. It called media war. It is as same as some governments were paying people to write adverse comments against others and they been caught. Now Hindus are doing the same. They would write anything and every thing because they get paid for it. it is lowest form of mankind. All you can do single them out where ever you see them. These people are not smart enough to hold a real job.

  49. What Farooq means is that the money never goes to Pakistan. It is paid to US corporations providing materials or services in Pakistan.

  50. Pete, It is not aid. It is a payment for the cost of logistical services that Pakistan provides for US Military in Afghanistan.
    Please get the facts before commenting. Ignorance is hazardous to your health.

  51. I dont understand when the masses of the area would benefit from the economic corridor, why few nations are panicking?? Don’t they wanna see others to prosper and live a better life and get rid of poverty they are living in since ages.

    In every mega project like Kala Bagh Dam, Dia Mir Basha Dam. Dasu Dam, Economic Corridor Project and many other projects, India n other enemies of humanity interfere and try to create hindrance to halt these projects.

    I wish these ruthless people live and let live the other peaceful nations around the world and do not poke their nose in anyone’s internal affairs.

  52. Do you really know pete how this is received back by US officials? Do you? And BTW this was not a topic you should comment on actually.

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