Modern Europeans Arrived Only 4,500 Years Ago

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Modern Europeans Arrived Only 4,500 Years Ago
stux / Pixabay

So far, the history of Europeans has been analyzed with the help of ancient settlements and tools that ancient inhabitants left behind. Now two new studies shed light on the history of Europe using DNA samples of 170 skeletons unearthed from various parts of Europe. One study was conducted by researchers at the Harvard University while another was by archaeologists at the University of Copenhagen. Both studies were published in the journal Nature.

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The first group of migrants came to Europe 45,000 years ago

Both studies suggest that three groups of humans came to Europe at different points in history. The first group was of hunter-gatherers, who came about 45,000 years ago. The second group came about 8,000 years ago. It consisted of farmers from the Near East. Finally, a group of nomads from western Russia, called Yamanya, came to Europe about 4,500 years ago.

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Researchers from either team agreed that the Yamanya language gave rise to many of the modern European languages. When the farmers from Turkey arrived about 8,000 years ago, the hunter-gatherer group did not disappear. They managed to survive in various parts of Europe. About 5,000 years ago, the DNA of hunter-gatherers started appearing in the genes of farmers, which suggests inter-breeding.

Yamanya gave Europeans their brown eyes, pale skin

A new kind of DNA arrived about 4,500 years ago, and this DNA is very common in most of the modern Europeans. Both groups of archaeologists found that the new DNA matched skeletons in the Yamanya graves in Russia and Ukraine. Yamanyas brought metal skills and a genetic mutations that allowed Europeans to tolerate drinking cow’s milk.

Eske Willerslev of the Copenhagen team said, “The genetic composition and distribution of peoples in Europe and Asia today is a surprisingly late phenomenon.” It is only a few thousand years old. Europeans also got their pale skin and brown eyes from the Yamanya.

The Yamanya people used horses to manage their herds of sheep, and followed their livestock with wagons full of water and food. David W. Anthony, the co-author of the Harvard study, said that the expansion of Yamanya people in Europe was peaceful.

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136 COMMENTS

  1. Yes the living trees go back nearly that far.. the debate come on the calibration methods used on the dead wood used to extend dendrochronology, to make radio carbon dates go back supposedly accurate to 11,000 years. I am not going to trust it…

  2. Regardless of what you believe, red heads do in fact produce there own vitamin D. Crazy but true. The main point of the questions are; Why haven’t the Eskimo people changed at ALL? European have not only changed a little bit but there are extreme changes. The Eskimo people had over 3 times the amount of time as the European white races has to change, yet nothing. It’s amazes me that people think that DNA can change over time. I’m a firm believer in adaptation, natural selection, etc. and changes in any species. That doesn’t apply to DNA. I also believe that every thing on this planet deteriorates, erodes, chaos, dies, etc. If the imposable ever happened and DNA were to change it would be in a chaotic way that wouldn’t work and the subject would die or at the very least wouldn’t reproduce. For DNA to start as an African DNA and become a red headed European DNA over a 5-10 thousand year period successfully is not only a stretch it’s impossible. Yes, all humans are related in some way but the DNA differences between us are created. You can not take a eagle and make a sparrow. Both birds, both beautiful, but CREATED differently. Here’s one for you….. the platypus…… some Creators joke. This does not happen with DNA mutation….. or from a duck having sex with a beaver. It can only happen with a scientifically DNA created creature.

  3. I agree with a previous poster that this question w/ it’s supposition that White ppl (I mean Indo-European language originators) are better looking is ridiculous, lol. People in a homogenous community always perceive themselves as the default phenotype & good, perhaps even best, looking (unless colonized and dehumanized like in modern times)… Indigenous Africans and Native Americans didn’t find White colonists attractive or good looking. Ghost & Pale Face were not compliments. Also, any phenotype you see in an “Indo-European language originator” you can find on the continent of Africa which had the most greatest genetic & phenotypic diversity. Meaning whatever you perceive to be specifically good looking to White ppl exists indigenously in Africa today

  4. Genesis-Deuteronomy were written by Moses as a result of a vision he was given when he was called atop Mt. Sinai which u read about in Exodus (24 ch I believe). Moses is on the mountain for 40 days. He is shown the creation over a period of 7 days. And writes about what he sees on each of those days. It doesn’t mean it took seven days for this all to be created especially since time is for man & YAHweh is not constrained by it. He merely speaks and it is so.

    Further, because you view the word creation twice referring to man & woman doesn’t mean there are two creations. The second part simply goes more in depth with the story.

  5. 200,000 years is surely plenty enough time in my unscientific opinion. The only problem with that is that “nature” did not see fit to have Homo Sapiens Sapiens (us humans) develop White skin until 10,000 years ago. Slc45a2 and slc24a5 are two genes that create pigment (ie melanin, dark skin) when these genes are mutated melanin is not made at all or not made in sufficient numbers thus albinism and/or White skin results. The mutated version of this gene is estimated to be only 10,000 years old. The presence of this gene in Europe is estimated to have arrived at about 5,000 years ago.

    I think it’s strange when someone chooses not to accept recent scientific discoveries in order to hold on to debunked notions created at a time when the idea of “White supremacy” was not some negative accusation but a “scientifically proven fact”. The liberal media arent related to the people who send out these press releases. The scientists and researchers studying human origins are in large part White and funded by White ppl. The “liberal” idea is bogus. And if one has no trouble accepting scientific theories on human origins from ppl who owned slaves and believed in inherent inferiority of non-White races, I think you should be able to accept modern science too.

  6. Who produces their own vitamin D without the need for sun? These people don’t exists. UV Rays penetrate White skin very quickly because of melanin deficiency. That is why there is such a high rate of skin cancer even in far Northern European countries. Black ppl are considered to have high rates of vitamin d deficiency yet tend to have the strongest most dense bones, the oppisire of what’s expected. And also lower incidence of ailments like osteoporosis which White women are the highest for. A recent study shows that people with Dark skin have as much bioavailable (able to be used by the body) Vitamin D as those with pale White skin. White ppl make more Vitamin D because they need more in order to have enough bioavailable Vitamin D. In fact, the whole discovery of Vitamin D is attributed to the prevalence of rickets in Europe.

    Also, human migrations from Africa have been occurring for 70kya~ (that number could be wrong) not 5000 and the article doesn’t suggest otherwise. White skinned ppl came from the Central Asia/Russia region 5000 years ago and entered Europe.

  7. I don’t believe the “White race” is only 5000 years old, but science shows that the slc45a2/slc24a5 found in Europeans, that when mutated create the White skin pigment, is less than 10,000 years old (the mutation is) and that presence of that White skin gene only shows up in a statistically relevant way at about 5000 years ago in Europe. An example of that would be the recent 7000kya~ La Braña man study who was homozygous (2 copies) for the original non-mutated version of the pigment genes slc45a2/slc24a5 (dark skin) and yet that he shared most genetic affinity with modern Nordic countries.

    It’s important to be open minded to what science is proving even if it flies in the face of previous thought which was heavily commited to race theory and racial hierarchy of which White was at the top. We’re all human, and if it turns out that the history of people with White skin is not what we’ve been taught (ie the founders & cultivators of ancient Europe) we still all share human history.

  8. Let me make it short for you as you like it, God gave you a brain if you ain’t tapping that you should start right now READ MORE and have real fun girl!!

  9. According to DNA, Asians and Europeans did interbreed with Neanderthals, while black
    africans did not. I’ve wondered if the genetic material from the Neanderthals–with their larger brains–didn’t put the Asians and Europeans on a higher IQ capacity.

  10. This bob jones claims to be a scientist and, yet, he doesn’t know that ‘doctor’ does not have to mean medical doctor. He tried to assert that the authors of “The Bell Curve”, (which shows scientific research supporting the lower average IQ of blacks) Dr. Herrnstein and Dr. Murray were not doctors, because one had his doctorate in psychology and the other in political science. I wouldn’t take his fantasies seriously.

  11. TL;DR because your intellect is unworthy.

    further replies from you will be ignored.

    i gave you a chance but if you ignore reality there is nothing to teach you.

  12. google “Re-examining Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy by Anatole Klyosov

  13. Of course, let’s all pieces of sht like you ever offer in debate – ad hominem/distraction, but facts elude your “microbe” brain. You lose moron

  14. Oahu
    It is actually the other way around!

    4,500 years ago Egypt has already shown of great intelligence engineers fascinating infrastructures our modern understanding calls it the great wonders of ancient times with the notion that such structures must have been designed by alien based for any better reasons. Meaning? Your “point of origin” is the one in err, obviously with significant evidence like ancient pyramids and historic records dismisses evolution theory’s self-serving personal interpreted manipulated informations over bone remains, DNAs, C14 or dating schemes, even different skin colors and migration stories. There were never successful “mutations” of evolving species, from apes to Neanderthals and to humans! But all butt-hurt figment of your imagination cos evolution cannot happen with 4,500 years of human existence yet are already such intelligent creatures with the better ability to design, rationalize, invent, create and build that we today thought impossible base on supposed “evolution theory” of present historical facts pointing otherwise the opposite! But you basically deceive yourself fitting in the things you see with assumptions without proper link chains and developing stages. It’s like composing a music with no connecting notes, beats and harmony… What this only tells is you pretty much a form of self-deception for a 200,000 years of mutation to occur. Duh, why don’t you do the math for once and see how ridiculous your statement is.

  15. Genesis 1 tells of the sequences of creations in day to day basis.

    Genesis 2 tells of details and manner of creation

    Genesis 6 tells the “Sons of God” mates with “Daughters of men”… Sons of God are those of Seth, a group of people that follows YHWH, while the Daughters of man are the descendants of Cain, the cross breeding brought out giants, high breed taller kind of people.

    Any other question?

  16. Today’s modern humans inhabit the wasteland 4,500 years ago after the global flood! Those other dumb pre-historic Neanderthals (Evolutionists) are liars!

  17. No problem with the truth here mate, I am actually on its side. Ignorance is the worst enemy of the truth. Let me shed some light into your brain, which seems to have never been stimulated by a photon of verifiable knowledge. It took Cortes a little over two years and half to take advantage of the many circumstances that led to the fall of the Aztec’s empire. Regarding the many diseases brought by the Spaniards, consider only one of them, smallpox for instance, which even Today is a very dangerous disease, difficult to contain and once it starts to spread it does so at an impressive speed. Thus, two and half years was more than enough for that. After Cortes arrived in Mexico, an Spanish army was sent from Cuba to try to control him. Cortes refused to follow orders, and fought them. Among them there was an African slave,
    who had smallpox and one of Cortes’ soldier
    contracted the smallpox. A bit later, this soldier was killed, and, when his body was looted, an Aztec
    caught the disease. Smallpox spread among the
    population faster than a California wildfire. The people had no immune resistance to it and no treatment.
    With no time to bury the large number of
    people dying, houses were just demolished over the bodies. During the
    siege of Tenochtitlán in 1520, the population was not only low on food
    but dying of smallpox. 25% of the empire is estimated to have been lost to
    small pox alone. However, even more importantly, the Aztec chain of command was
    in ruins. The emperor died of smallpox, as well as many of the army leaders. So there you have it some facts to prevent you from drowning in your ignorance. You should also consider, though I doubt that people with such male Chauvinistic views, as many Europeans fans, would accept it as the truth, much of Cortes alleged military genius can be ascribed to “La Malinche”, the Mayan woman who partnered with him and who had her own motives for revenge.

  18. Not only is it “possible,” but it is proven beyond doubt that they are less able intellectually–on average.

    But the key phrase is “on average.” Because there are certainly blacks who excel intellectually. It’s just that, according to the Bell Curve, compared to other races they are a lot fewer and farther between.

    With the black global IQ firmly in the 70-85 range (70 for black Africans, and 85 for black Americans–though virtually all of whom have some degree of white admixture), it causes reasonable suspicion that the races did not evolve the same intellectually.

    This might be the reason for the ongoing, seemingly irreconcilable civilizational gap between races. As a group, blacks seem unable to come up with a cultural system that promotes intellectual and socioeconomic advancement. There are very few elite-level blacks in the hard sciences, and certainly almost none at the highest levels of technological innovation.

    However, in spite of all this, the IQ gap STILL might be explained in terms of environment, rather than biology.

    If I were black, I’d be hell-bent on proving that my race was not inherently inferior intellectually. However, the vast majority of blacks seem uninterested in proving this–or even grasping the magnitude and consequences of the racial intelligence gap. Until they do, the uncomfortable suspicion that racial cognitive differences are rooted in biology will–unfortunately–remain.

  19. This is retarded and exposes why there is so much strange bs floating around. Who is “good looking”? Truly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There was a twilight zone episode from many years ago exactly about that. Do you really think that a Neanderthal woman (presumably “ugly” to you) would think that your Aryan archetype is attractive? Sheesh! What a lamebrain.

  20. I have to hand it to you, you can dig up meanings that never existed. You could read “Cinderella” and find reason to believe that it proved that blacks are really aliens with super powers. Playing sports doesn’t make anyone a genius. We weren’t talking about someone who could jump to the moon, but those who put a man there. Of course, there are brilliant blacks, but data in “The Bell Curve” pointed to a much lower average level of mental competency than for whites or orientals.
    Dr. Murray was a psychologist…duh. Who else would study intelligence, an NFL lineman? I’m sure that some linemen are highly intelligent, but Doctors Murray and Herrnstein proved their abilities with their education. Dr. Herrnstein got his doctorate from Harvard, that is know as a doctor. Dr. Murray earned his doctorate—a doctor—at MIT, which is an even more difficult institution. He is probably not capable of jumping as high as most basketball players and I’m sure that that means that you consider him less intelligent. Maybe he should get a degree in “rounball” to bring him up to the level you expect.
    You are the kind of fantasy-land believer who put obama in office. You probably don’t see the damage in that, while peering through your rose-colored glasses.

  21. i frequently hear arguments like yours from people who entirely ignore reality for the sake of their own willful ignorance.

    Cortes defeated the Aztecs long before any infectious diseases had time to spread, it was quick.

    you just can’t handle the truth.

  22. I frequently hear arguments like yours from Bible mongers who insist that the fact that dinosaur fossils and other fossils millions of years old, which have been radio-isotopically dated to within a few hundred years of accuracy, does not prove that the planet is older that 5,000 years as it says in the Bible, because The Bible is the word of God who created everything. Also, you seem to conveniently omit from your argument that the main reason Cortes and Pizarro manage to defeat the Aztecs and the Incas so quickly was through the spread of infectious diseases such as Measles, Syphilis, Gonorrhea and many others to which the indigenous people had not developed any immunological defense; that to me sounds more like “Biological warfare” instead of owing to the putative European intelligence that you so proudly alleged. Any decent recent peer-reviewed research paper on this topic will tell you how catastrophic the introduction of such highly contagious and devastating diseases had non the indigenous population, which in fact almost exterminated all of them (tens of millions). If that is not Genocide then I do not know what is.

  23. You conveniently forgot to mention the Mayas of Central America, in the Belize and Yucatan peninsula which is about 20 degrees form the equator with no mountain range nearby, who contradict your preposterous conjecture about food availability, altitude and tropical weather in general. The Mayans and Aztecs not only were great scientists and builders, but also great agronomists who developed the cultivation of such important foods as tomatoes, cacao, vanilla, corn, chili peppers, beans, and numerous more. Can you imagine the world without them? Also, even though the Incas are the better known in South America, there were multiple other people who did not live in the mountains, such as those living in the Atacama desert region, as advanced and in certain aspects more advanced than the Incas (In fact, Machu Pichu is actually not very representative of the places where most Incas people lived, because they lived in a very extensive territory and Machu Pichu was more like a resort for the emperor to sort of vacation there). So there goes your hypothesis that people living in the lowlands below the 40 degrees were only hunters and gatherers and too lazy to think about growing their own food. Indeed, the Eskimos diet suggests that even very cold weather and living above the 40 degrees (more like living next to the pole) does not seem to induce people to change their hunting-gathering habits.

  24. Well, I think an actual Scientist would pay attention to details like spelling “liar” properly. They care about what they say and produce…as I do.

    Plus, only an idiot would fail to realize that all that I have done is repeat the findings and results of “The Bell Curve”….so your argument lies with the data presented in the book which most Racists love to cite – without knowing what it really is saying.

    I have not lied about anything…only presented results of the research.

    I doubt that you have worked with a very wide range of Black folks.

  25. You are a lier. I’ve worked as professional scientist for 40 years. Blacks must be carried and coddled and are incapable of innovative technological creativity.

  26. Generally speaking, when you have a handsome population, it means the females are choosing their mates. Men are not particularly discriminative in choosing someone to satisfy their needs – especially at closing time.

  27. white people appeared because of the saber tooth tiger. the lighter africans would blend in better wiht a snowy back ground til gradually the Africans got whiter and whiter as the tiger ate the colored ones that stood out

    deelish sez Mr Tiger and not at all greasy like Hindus sez Mr. Bear

  28. I think you are smoking to much Kona Gold, Surfer, if you really believe that the changes we have seen are merely due to “mutations”…

    We undoubtedly had a number of Ethnic and Genetic Cleansings (extinctions) occur, similar to the way various Indian populations virtually disappeared in the Americas.

    I think recent evidence for mass extinctions also suggests that evolution is not always the slow gradual process that most think it is.

  29. No, YOU read it…and learn enough to read it properly…

    When
    you open to the door to letting Blacks compete on a level playing
    field, they outperform whites and whites lose their dominance.

    “The Bell Curve” proved that, and so have professional Baseball, Football and Basketball, not to mention Boxing (so long, Great White Hope), and Tennis…and Golf.

    I know quite a few Africans who would quickly make short work of you on any intellectual task, and who know that Herrnstein and Murray were *not* doctors…they earned Ph.D. degrees, or doctorates…which is not the same thing.

    Herrnstein was a Psychologist, and Murray got his graduate degree in Political Science, with his bachelor’s degree in History. Murray did not teach at Harvard, that is only where he got his History degree.

    Reading and thinking about all of the information in the book is difficult for people who like to make generalizations categorizing entire races of people, like you have done.

    Herrnstein and Murray tried very hard to make the inequalities in wealth in America disappear statistically by controlling for differences in IQ scores.

    They desperately wanted to prove their theory that Blacks are paid less because they achieve less due to lower IQ scores (on the average).

    They wanted to show that lower pay is *not* due to discrimination, but simply due to low capabilities.

    But if you read their research carefully, you will find that Black people who have equal IQs with white people are actually far more productive, and far better educated…but they are not rewarded economically to the same degree.

    True enough, a lot of racial differences in Pay disappeared when IQ was controlled for, but they did not disappear in the most important job categories like Management, where employers have the most power to discriminate.

    When you look at clerical jobs or technical jobs, where pay is tightly controlled and goes according to achievement and performance, Blacks actually earned *more* than whites when IQ was controlled for.

    The thing that most people missed by not reading all the analyses is that when Blacks are put on a level playing field with whites they tend to outperform whites, on average. It is nonsense that Blacks as a group “do not value education”.

    Those who *start out* with a good education, and have average IQ levels outperform whites…

    And, guess what: the same applies to Hispanics, they manage to do more (with less) than whites do.

    The second thing missed by people like you is that Discrimination and low pay and poor living conditions and low Social Class can indeed affect the level of education and intellectual achievement that people obtain.

    Just head to Appalachia and study the “poor white trash” who live there and you will see the truth of that statement.

    Who exactly do you think is fueling the growth of Meth addiction in America?
    It is not Blacks, but lower class whites who are ensuring that their families and children will *stay* Lower Class by their addiction and destruction of their social environment.

    It is pretty hard for white children in that environment to develop much in the way of intellectual curiosity or achievement, although they might get some pointers in basic chemistry from the neighborhood meth labs, which have replaced the moonshine stills.

    So, read my lips: take any Black American with a decent education and an average or above-average IQ and he will outperform the average white person with the same characteristics, in terms of University degrees obtained and occupational achievements.

    The only way that whites in America manage to outperform Blacks – in GENERAL – is by ensuring that so many of them live in restrictive environments which prevent them from developing socially and intellectually and which prevent them from competing on a level playing field.

    Do you not realize that most white professional athletes in Baseball earned a living that should have been going to support Black families if there had been an equal playing field?

    Those Black families with more money to support them would have raised healthier children, in communities with better schools, and would have done more if more opportunities for development had been available.

    Jimmy the Greek said Blacks did not have the talents to be Managers…
    well, how do you develop managerial talents if nobody ever gives Blacks the opportunities to develop them?

    We had a Superbowl with both coaches Black only a couple of years ago, once Blacks were given *the same* opportunities to learn through Assistant positions and mentorship.

    You need to wake up and smell how the deck has been systematically stacked against Blacks in America from the beginning, and still is, to some degree, although great progress has been made in opening doors to a few at a time…but not TOO MANY all at once, right?

    I am not Black, but I *am* a Psychologist who knows how to interpret statistics fairly without the bias that crept into Herrnstein and Murray’s work.

    I have used *their own* stats here, which they chose to de-emphasize in their conclusions.

    My conclusions: there is less discrimination than many Blacks would like to claim, and far more than many whites would like to admit.

  30. I here ya. All the white faced, pale skinned, freckle faced, blue eyed, red heads, who produce there own vitamin D born anywhere are from Nordic or Celtic DNA from the past.
    Are they trying to say a “African” & “Neandertal” mate and you get a white faced, pale skinned, freckle faced, blue eyed, red heads, who produce there own vitamin D “Scandinavian”? Where are all the African and Neanderthal facial traits. What a deal you take two races that haven’t contributed anything other than genocide and self destruction. Is that how you get the White race that has created a Civilization to 100% of everywhere they go. That is algebra at it finest……2 negatives making a positive.

  31. You are missing the point. The social-constructionists argue that it is white people who created the concept of Race to bolster their own sense of superiority and exclude others, and that it has very little usefulness in actually differentiating people, as you have tried to do.

    Various racist groups like Aryan Nations and KKK try to use the word Race to describe Anglo-Saxons, like you have…but the theorists state that that usage has more Political utility than Scientific validity.

    There is no point talking about the “Egyptian Race” for example…

    Social Constructionists always claim that there is no Genetic Basis for dividing people by races, but they seem to not have accepted the same research as the researchers reported upon in this article.

    Keep in mind that the Social Constructionists themselves usually have a fairly clearcut Socio-Political Agenda (left-leaning)…and wish to destroy “old’ ways of thinking which they claim are misguided.

    They have many valid points, in terms of unfair systems of thinking which hold people back socially, but I believe that they are wrong about the issue of Race…and that this research helps to prove it.

  32. The difference between “Blacks” and “Africans” is the sizable amount of white slave-owner DNA mixed in with that of former slave populations.
    Please name some of these tribes with purely African genes who are blonde and blue eyes…otherwise you sound like a liar also.

  33. It’s true we are finding a small amount of Red head, blue eyed, freckle faced, white people in Gununs Padans, Gobekli Tepe, Egypt, even Easter Island among countless others. Here’s the catch though, in ever case they are priests, kings, and the rulers of the other races they are visiting. You ask why I say visiting? The ones they can pull DNA from are Scandinavian….. they are not only the rulers but Norse visitors.

  34. What is “crap” is your poor reading comprehension. You should not be commenting upon material you cannot even understand…you are just responding with knee-jerk reactions to words which you think are pushing your buttons.

  35. there is no evidence for Out of Africa. it is a hypothesis of Social Justice Warriors and nothing more. just because a few skeletons were found in Africa doesn’t mean we’re from there, many more skeletons are found in Europe (like neanderthals and cro-magnon).

    recently, 1 million+ mummies were found from Ancient Egyptian times, who had blonde, red, and auburn hair – they were Europeans; the pharaohs as well were European, only the slaves were darker Races.

    so it is true that civilization flourished where it was warm, but that is because the cold adapted brains, who had to be creative to survive, moved down south.

    and with regards to your BS genocide statement, that only Europeans genocide: a) Americas were at Total War when Europeans rediscovered it in the 15th century which is why people like Cortes didn’t need an army but only a few hundred men to take over the largest empires here (because they commanded armies that were already present – which owes to European intelligence too); b) the Mongols, Arabs, Moors, et al, committed genocide against Europeans long before Europeans did it to others, so that about obliterates your SJW talking points.

  36. i think it’s most likely that they evolved to such a degree that they didn’t need to evolve any more, but wanted to

  37. It so funny that you said that because I see that the majority of black men PREFER White females. AND the MAJORITY of black fathers are not around their black females.

  38. So you are saying we have found 200,000 White people? What where they called? I would love to look them up. The Egyptians were a Asian / African race and I’m not sure what they have to do with the White race other than they are not in in Egypt. The reason I fandangled the rough / rounded number of 5000 years is that is within that time period most of the Norse, Celts, Normans, Goths, etc blond & red haired, blue & green eyes. white race magically appears in abundance from out of nowhere. That includes one of the 12 Jewish tribes. The tribe of Dan. Who the Jews have long associated with red heads. They also include Enoch and David as redheads. The only description of David is that he was “ruddy in appearance”. They were not just referring to his hair color but the fact that his cheeks could blush or were “rudy in appearance”. Not to many races can Blush. Not even all “white races” Blush. You usually save that description for “white faced, pale skinned, freckle faced, blue eyed, red heads, who produce there own vitamin D”, “rudy in appearance”. I had my DNA checked and the is 100% Scandinavian ancestry. Where is the .000000000000000001% African, Asian, or even southern white European at???
    Your theory still has me wondering why the Eskimos aren’t redheads or blue eyed or pale skinned or produce their own vitamin D. They haven’t changed at ALL and they had 3 times the amount of time to do it.

  39. Even if we did originally walk out of Africa as black-skinned, kinky-haired, prognathic-faced, tropically-adapted people, it would’ve been more like 200,000 years ago–not 5,000.

    200,000 years is plenty of time for racial evolution via phenotypic and biological mutations to have occurred.

    5,000 years ago is already the early Egyptian dynasties. Not enough time for the development of divergent racial traits seen among modern Caucasoids, Mongoloids and Negroids.

    Also, we promptly interbred with cold-adapted Neandertals as soon as we set foot outside the African continent. Those Neandertal ancestors of ours probably already had light-colored skin, hair and eyes.

    This whole “white race only 5,000 years old” is a butt-hurt Afrocentric fantasy that is fully supported by the white guilt-driven liberal media.

  40. i think it is wrong to say we interbred with neanderthals, it is clear we are neanderthals (developed further). funny the afrocentrists think that’s an insult, when neanderthals had higher technology 200,000 years ago than the modern african does today (without White assistance, of course).

  41. That’s because, even if we did originally walk out of Africa as black skinned, kinky-haired, prognathic-faced people, it would’ve been more like 200,000 years ago–not 5,000.

    200,000 years is plenty of time for racial evolution via phenotypic and biological mutations to have occurred.

    5,000 years ago is already the early Egyptian dynasties.

    Also, we promptly interbred with cold-adapted Neandertals as soon as we set foot outside the African continent. Those Neandertal ancestors of ours probably already had light-colored skin, hair and eyes.

    This whole “white race only 5,000 years old” is a butt-hurt Afrocentric fantasy that is fully supported by the white guilt-driven liberal media.

  42. Question??
    Bible question; If we are all of one creation and therefore created equal, maybe you can shed some little light on Genesis for me.
    Gen. 1:27 God CREATES man…..male and female He created them. 1st creation?
    Gen. 2:22 God takes a rib from Adam and CREATES woman. 2nd creation?
    Gen 6:4 The Sons of God mate with the daughters of men and CREATE giants. Multiple unlimited creations???????
    I can go on. I’m only on chapter 6 of Genesis. Do you want more?

  43. Questions??
    If the white faced, pale skinned, freckle faced, blue eyed, red heads, who produce there own vitamin D (no need for milk or sun) walked out of Africa as a black skinned, black haired, black eyed, African 5000 years ago and only look that way because of the lack of sun? Then why haven’t the Eskimo peoples of the Northern Artic changed in skin color, eye color, facial looks, etc for over the last 15000 years the Asian race have been around? If they do not drink milk then why do they not produce their own vitamin D like the redheads who drink milk and still produce even more vitamin D anyway?

  44. Sure. But then you have to ask yourself, why are Mongoloids, Caucasoids, Polynesians etc. racially distant from Negroids today? We’re all Homo Sapiens. But obviously, races continued to develop outside of Africa.

    Sub-Saharan people are genetically the most distant of all human races. Swedes, Australian Aborigines, and Han Chinese are all genetically closer to one another, than any are to Negroids.

    And that’s simply due to the dynamics of geographic isolation in racial evolution. If out-of Africa theory is correct, then it makes perfect sense that sub-Saharans are the most genetically distant, because the out-of-Africa populations diverged from them the longest time ago. Then, other race groups evolved from those initial out-of-Africa groups, as they settled in different regions of the globe.

    Non-blacks diverged from blacks around 200,000 years ago, probably via out-of-Africa migrations. Upon arrival in Eurasia, they promptly interbred with Neandertal and Denisova, furthering their racial divide from Africans. They then continued to diverge from each other. For example, Caucasoids and Mongoloids diverged from their common ancestor about 40-50,000 years ago.

    Native Americans diverged from their Northeast Asian ancestral roots about 20,000 years ago. Polynesians diverged from their Southeast Asian roots about 10,000 years ago.

    Etc.

  45. Hey dumb-ass, humans are not native to anywhere. Especially not Indians. Pick up a book. Obviously someone has issues with their “butter-face” savage ancestors.

  46. It depends on what you mean by “close to the equator.” Look at a map–it seems that civilization starts to flourish above 20 degrees latitude north of the equator. Egypt and Mohenjo Daro (Indus Valley) lie roughly on the same lines of latitude (20+ degrees north of the equator), and were among the first sites of civilization. Both of those populations were Caucasoid, not Negroid. Same with the rest of the Cradle of Civilization.

    Same with Greece and China, although the first civilizational sites of Greece and China are even further north than Cairo or Mohenjo Daro.

    Conversely, if you go up too far north, then people tend to remain hunter-gatherers again–Inuit, Saami, Siberians, etc.

    But anything within 20 degrees of the equator, and you are pressed to find independent civilizational development.

    There’s a fairly broad-ranging “latitudinal sweet spot” that produced the world’s great civilizations. Read Jared Diamond’s Pulitzer-winning “Guns, Germs and Steel”–he discusses all these issues at length, as to why some people created magnificent civilizations, and others did not.

  47. Africans have done so little, is it possible that they are less able intellectually? Read “The Bell Curve”, by two Harvard doctors who specialize in intelligence testing.

  48. Apparently the ability to digest milk is passed down along with genes for developing racist euro-centric ideals about who is “good looking”. But I am 100% with you all that Euros are primarily descended from Neanderthals, with apologies to Neanderthals who were actually quite well socially developed. Proof that evolution works both ways. The real news here is that Europeans are not even native to Europe. Native American peoples have been in the America’s for 21,000 years and did not have to kick anybody out when they got here. So how bout all you milk digesters just carry your good looking butts back to where-ever-in-the-hell you came from?

  49. One question that has never been resolved is why the originators of the Indo-European languages, in contrast with other peoples, evolved a greater tendency towards being good-looking. Could this have anything to do with the genes for being able to continue digesting milk into adulthood?

    World over, young adults tend to be much better looking than the aged, and despite their lack of sexiness children are almost always better looking than adults. Among most people, the ability to digest milk is associated with childhood. Could evolution to delay the loss of this ability have also caused a delay in the onset of ugliness?

  50. I`m curious, How do all of the scientists on this message board have so much time to post?
    What is abundantly clear is that while Africans still squat in mud huts and eat bugs, Europeans and their ancestors have explored the moon. Honestly, some people are so gullible. “Scientists” are the new priests of the Dark Ages, telling the masses what to believe. Line up sheeple, it`s time for your sheering.

  51. Altitude is the main cause of advancement in the case of the Incas since the tropics far down the Andes were more or less constant throughout the year supplying food. the high altitude was seasonal only and the food had to be mass produced to make up for the snow and ice season. The same applied to all ethnic groups above and below 40 degrees from the equator . The equator is tropical all year and as such there is no pressure on hunter gatherers to plant .

  52. ” the expansion of Yamanya people in Europe was peaceful” That is a stupid assertion. No evidence for it.When has an invasion or expansion of any peoples been peaceful?

  53. “This article is nothing more than leftist propaganda…”

    If you read their article, you’ll see that their narrative is based on data.

    On what data do you base your authoritative statements, professor?

  54. There is an old adage…..2 Browns can make a blue, but two blue can’t make a brown. A blue and a brown can have either brown, hazel, green, or blue.

  55. Ah excuse me…. Did you just agree with Shark? Where were the Egyptians located (those dark skin peoples) near the equator. Right? The Greeks ( Classical time period ) – the equator – right? The Romans – equator – right? Take a look at the map – Where were the great civilizations emergent in south east China? And also look at your own statement about the migration of the Mayans and Incan cultures. When did they develop great civilizations? In Siberia? On their journey across the bearing strait? Nevada? Oh that s right only when their cultures had spent centuries along the equator? Aztecs not-withstanding. Lovely chat with you gentlemen. Good day.

  56. AND a Spanish last name – how sweet ! Another mixed up bundle of joy – go humans !
    I am Swiss, Irish, English, no genetics testing done, so anybody’s guess what’s also in there !
    The British Royal family have mixed race ancestors too, and the lot on the throne actually are not the right ‘set’ so there’s another story not being told – the ‘real’ heirs (Plantagenet line) live in Australia and are pretty low-key about it. (maybe they are actually happy to duck out of that foolishness?) – there was a lot of bumping off the competition in the middle ages !
    Thank God we are growing up enough to just tell it as it is – people love each other and mixing happens – all over the world for thousands of years – we are ALL hybrids – and I REALLY fell off my chair laughing at the US racist who was thrown out of his KKK type club because he was discovered to have a black ancestor – there’s justice for you !

  57. My parents both had green eyes and came from northern Europe. All the children had blue eyes. I married a brown eyed girl who came from Italy. All three of our kids had blue eyes.

  58. This article is nothing more than leftist propaganda, catering heavily to Afrocentric fantasy. Europeans got their pale skin and light-colored hair and eyes at least 50-80,000 years ago–and possibly long before that–when they began to interbreed with cold-adapted Neandertals on the Eurasian continent.

    Remember: there’s nothing special about light-colored skin, hair and eyes in primates. Hell, even the Lesula Monkey deep in the Congo far more closely resembles a white person, than a Negroid person. (Google it).

  59. Using your simplistic argument, then you just proved your silly hypothesis wrong because Europeans (the race that people like you, Hitler and the likes consider superior), Mongoloids, Caucasians, Asians, Polynesians (the first colonizers of S. America) are all descendants of modern Homo sapiens sapiens, who themselves, if I remember correctly, evolved from archaic Homo sapiens in in the Paleolithic or about 200,000 years ago, who originated in the African Savanna by the Omo River in Ethiopia, which is actually only 6 degrees north of the equator. So, there you have it, you just proved yourself wrong.

  60. You asked: “how do you explain that the the Incas and Mayas civilizations (close to the equator) were so much more advanced (scientifically, culturally, and architecturally) than any other in the world…”?

    First of all, where did the Incans and Mayans’ ancestors come from? Did they evolve near the equator “in situ”?

    No. They came from Northeast Asia during the Paleolithic (c. 15-20,000 YBP), via the Bering Land Bridge, and populated vast regions of North, Central and South America.

    So Incan and Mayan civilizations were built by Mongoloid peoples who originally came from a cold-adapted climate, very far north of the equator.

    But in any event, they weren’t “so much more advanced” than any other civilization. They were built centuries after ancient Egypt and Imperial China, let alone Classical Greece or the Roman Empire.

  61. Some believe it is a recessive gene from a form of albinoism. I have blue eyes, very light skin, but medium brown/auburn hair. Dna testing showed me as gulf coast America Native American, North American Souix, Irish, German, French, and my Grandfather was a full Norweign (by area). I am the only blue eyed child out of 4. My mother was the only blue eyed child out of two. Recessive genes are usually transferred by the mother. That gene doesn’t recognize melanin in the skin and sometimes causes hyper pigmentation or freckled skin.

  62. But, genetically speaking, if they can show proof of no other dna was supplied by another race. In all actuallity, many do have dna from the European traders as well as those from the mediteranean area and early Northern European migrators. You have to keep in mind that there was a large trade in slaves from European areas during 2300 BC until 800 AD. This was before African American slaves were even thought of as a mass trading source in the early 1700’s. Many have what is called a recessive gene that will throw the characteristics you stated, within 1 in 300 births. There are many Albinos born in certain areas of Africa. Most can trace the recessive gene to a place in North Eastern Africa.

  63. exactly my point – in the cases you refer to the increased UV exposure is due to reflection from snow or ice – Scandinavia is mostly snow or ice free for most of the year Eskimos, inuits and other arctic populations have about 3 months without ice or snowcover on the ground at most

  64. Actually, the word “race” is a scientific (albeit general population) to differentiate one group of people by another. I am of the native american race, as well as several European blood line. Some Saxon (a race of people), some mediteranean ( a race of people), and possibly Viking descendant ( 3 races of people). The word race is a generalizing term. It is to help determine not only color (as you believe) but mostly to identify a person or group on a geographical scale as well. Way before science was even developed as we currently recognize it today.

  65. aloha, sorry but variation due to where you might be on the planet just doesn’t explain the Eskimos, Inuits and other people in the Siberian Arctic zone. These people have a high melanin count and they have been, according to the archaeologists longer than the Norse have been in Scandinavia.

  66. aloha, as far as C14 dating technology and scientific ethics is concerned the one absolute we can say about C14 dating is it is wrong 100% of the time. I know of 4 studies. 52 labs in the US and all the UK labs and several on the continent (somewhere in the range nearing 100 labs) were incorrect with material they were given with known dates. What was interesting is the last study done by Scottish scientists were curious as to the incorrect dates and how they didn’t correlate. One would assume that if the problem was just contamination then the incorrect dates would be in the same ballpark. Though not definitive it is suggestive that C14 dating technology may have an inherent flaw. At any rate the dates for these newly arrived people in Europe would be closer to our time.

  67. Wrong, Europeans and Asians have genes from Neanderthals who genetic testing has shown many had pale skin, red hair, etc.

  68. Misleading as Europeans hold genes from many groups including Neanderthals who genetic reseach has shown that many had light skin, red hair, etc.

  69. I accept that every one is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong and ignorant they are, but when your ignorance is used to denigrate others my opinion is that you not only are ignorant but a despicable and deplorable being. How do you explain that the the Incas and Mayas civilizations (close to the equator) were so much more advanced (scientifically, culturally, and architecturally) than any other in the world until the Europeans with their genocidal intentions brought their plagues and venereal diseases (because of the lack of knowledge about personal hygiene which still persists in many places there) and exterminated cultures more advanced than theirs

  70. LOL! That’s a convoluted, unscientific analysis based on racial resentment. If whites are “master race,” that’s because they accomplished more than others. Of course, East Asia also had magnificent ancient civilizations and are coming on strong today. Are they going to become a “new” master race”?

    Remember: a race IS as a race DOES.

    One thing’s sure: it seems like the closer a race evolved near the equator, the darker they are, the less civilizational capacity they have. We all see it. But don’t get indignant about this fact. After all, the only way for a race to disprove that observation is to summon the collective will to organize itself and start getting stuff done.

  71. They explain that Yamanya was a tribe from “Russia”. Which is as correct and as informative as saying that agriculture came from “Turkey”.

  72. The truth is that science is revealing that the people who are the main proponents of racism (scientific racism, eugenics) and believers and promoters of a “Master Race” are most likely no race at all. That is, whites are most likely what they appear to be. Asians, Pakistanis, Indians, Africans, etcetera who somehow, along the way lost their pigment and traveled North every opportunity they had. We will find, in short order, that whites are what some theorize – albinos who have along the way picked up percentages of melanin through migration, invasions, etc. Titillating stuff…

  73. haha, “””” If we could just get people interested enough in where/how all this
    happened maybe the white population could finally put down it’s hatred
    of all things ‘non-white’ – we are such a bigoted race !!
    How tiresome that is !”””””

    what the hell is this? is this what you think? that whites hate other colors of people?

    how stupid are you?

    its a simple philosophy, “us and them”, its not new. people want to be around people that are like them. birds of a feather flock together. the idea is that one is supposed to be tolerant of others in order to live peacefully. i can hate whoever i want. im allowed to hate everyone. instinctively im made to hate others to survive in a cruel world where everything goes in the battle for survival. races enslaving other races and breeding them as slaves, or slave armies.

    grow t up. do you actually think these anthropologists and historians are so stupid to make such a g statement thats so broad and obviously retarded it combines all white people into one giant class and the rest of the colords in a different one?

    were talking about many species that interbred over the course of time. this covers the genetic line of first families of people. first developments. language. writing.

    dominant race? let the scientists say it. its true. without these yamanya it sounds like none of the other races would have been able to survive. maybe they were the ones that were the smartest. obviously we can see different facial structures in different people of different races. some of them are only here because of modern medicine or wars that just happen to save them from genocide.

    learn to read man.

  74. ” Europeans also got their pale skin and brown eyes from the Yamanya.”
    You have to look closely to spot the facts that contradict the politically correct theory that Race does not really exist and is merely a concept made up by white people. Obviously the Scientists reporting the research had a way of linking and identifying skin color by DNA/Genetics.

  75. “When the farmers from Turkey arrived about 8,000 years ago” Please use “Anatolia” instead of a country that was enstablished a 100 years ago with invading turkic people.

  76. Yes, of course.
    I can see by the preponderance of the evidence you’ve provided to support your moronic view that you must certainly be correct.
    Who cares what the Scientists say?

  77. The dating on the oldest trees is 5000 years which is than matched against old wood so you can go back a long way. The margin of error is a lot less than many 1000’s of years and depends on the accuracy of the count. More modern methods count better so the margin is in the decades or less.

  78. You make a lot of assumptions which are contrary to history. Take horses, the plains indians prior to horses were the europeans prior to the new comers. The new comers on horse would be the plains indians whose whole way of life changed in less than two centuries. They became the conquers of the other tribes, I bet the new comers to europe followed the same path as that is what every horse centered group did in history, invaded and conquered the none horse people.

  79. Melenated people have been in europe for hundreds of thousands of years……white skin is a recent genetic mutation….you can hem and haw and deny it all you want….

  80. “millions of blonde, red and auburn haired mummies”
    WOW…..you can’t tell a better lie than that? they have NEVER recover millions of mummies stupid!!!!! and for the record Blacks have the genetic potential to produce red blonde and auburn hair colors…..there are tribes in this modern age that have Africans with natural blondeurn hair……AND blue eye’s!!!!

  81. that depends. At that time humans were very few as you point out and they gained more by cooperating than by fighting. Slavery was practiced only in established states like Egypt, Babylon. As far as I know Indian tribes did not practice slavery. Besides during that expansion the Yamanya traveled about 2000 miles in hundreds of years, probably in small family size groups so you can hardly call taht an invasion.

  82. Draga Vadim, europenii au doar 2-3% ADN de Neanderthal, deci nu se poate spune ca neanderthalienii sunt stramosii europenilor. In schimb asemanarea cu oamenii din Africa e mult mai mare. Genomul neanderthalienilor nu a aparut ca stire de senzatie pentru ca e incomplet. Hai sa lasam stiinta separata de politica, pentru ca nu e nici o conspiratie. Asa si Putin poate sa zica acuma ca rusii sunt stramosii tuturor europenilor, deci au dreptul sa ocupe toata Europa.

  83. You got that right!
    The science on Neanderthal man was, from the start, suppressed by the media and the “social justice” warriors from every nook and cranny those roaches were able to squeeze into; from the publishing companies to the courtrooms, “science” has become very selective.
    “The Neanderthal Genome Project” never made an appearance in “Newsweek” but the ” out of Africa theory” now junked as it should be,
    did.
    Europeans have been in Europe for hundreds of thousands of years and it just seems to be killing “the system” to have to accept this as fact.

  84. what’s interesting is the millions of blonde, red, and auburn, haired mummies recently found in Egypt, dating from Ancient Egypt, and the fact that the pharaohs were obviously European (red hair, blond hair, auburn hair) – yet, 4,500 years? right… ok….

    it’s true we changed in the past 4,500 years, but we existed even before 45,000 years ago. nowhere else on Earth is cromagnon man found, they and neanderthal are our ancestors – undeniable.

  85. social justice warriors can’t stand that Europeans have been in Europe hundreds-of-thousands of years and no amount of social engineering and playing with the data can change that. the more we understand genetics, and the more of it is made public rather than controlled by an elite of social jewstice warriors, the more we know the truth about us.

  86. Well, if you use the right scientific method……………blah, blah, blah……………. and then in the bible……………….blah, blah, blah…………..carbon dating…………….blah, blah, blah. What a bunch of ignorant blowhards on this comment board that think they have something intelligent to say.

  87. Amazing what this aggregation of genes produced – the framework of Western Civilization – the very heart and intellectual soul of world-wide modernity!…….. Here’s to our genius – our ancestors!

  88. mbee1 – A very funny resolution for the issue – canons !
    – yes I do know that racial hatred is not limited to whites – plenty of hatred to go around, so your point is well taken. Just tired of listening to my lot going backwards recently – all the racists coming out of the woodwork in the US these days. So tired of it – will humans never learn anything –
    There are brilliant, cultured men & women of all races.

  89. Because the trees they rely on are only alive to about 800 A.D. …In order to extend the scale, scientists try to match overlapping patterns of thin and thick rings in pieces of dead wood found lying nearby… These they also C-14 date, in attempt to support each other in the calibration process. In the end, your going to end up with + or – many many 1000s of years. Because your relying on scraps of dead wood to support a known to be inaccurate C-14 dating system.

  90. eyecolor is genetically determined with brown dominating over blue and green – as both are recessive alleles you need one of each parent to have blue or green eyes (or their parents)

  91. I suggest you look up Uganda and read up on that nice race hatred war between a two tribes which saw the other as non human, sub human races.

  92. Whites are bigoted? You must live in bizarro land not the earth. The people of Africa are so tribal they regularly kill each other in race wars, same with Arabs and Asians. The whites simply fired all the trouble makers out of cannons in the 1800’s and most of that tribal hatred, race hatred stopped for about a 100 years. As soon as the whites left power they were back to hacking off each others heads.

  93. Carbon dating does not depend on magnetic fields so the whole posting was nonsense. C14 is generated in the atmosphere from cosmic rays and solar charged particles and has a half life of 5730 years. The uptake of carbon stops when something dies so the C14 decays and you simply measure the amount. the major assumption is the C14 ratio today is the same as in the past which was verified with tree ring samples which go back a few thousand years. The maximum detectable age is from 50000 to around 70000 years. The older the sample the less C14 and the more possibility that it became contaminated with more modern carbon along the way. Why not wiki the subject.

  94. Peaceful? Not a single expansion in history has been peaceful. The new comers always managed to kill or enslave the tribes they displaced. The only peaceful part was the number of humans in europe was pretty small which left a lot of room for the tribes to exist sort of like the Indian tribes here in America.

  95. What they’re leaving out here is that the blue-eye mutation happened in an earlier population of Europeans, who still retained their original darker skin. So brown eyes would have had to be brought back into Europe to find any there now.

  96. Because the agenda underlying his rant wasn’t really more accurate dating methods — although, as has already been explained, this result doesn’t rely on C14 dating anyway — but because the only people who post rants like that are those who want us to believe some old book instead. Hence Mark’s reply.

  97. brown eyes are protection of UV light as dark skin – so in an environment like africa or the middle east they give you an advantage – but in europe the farther north you go you dont need that advantage anymore – I don t know if getting fair haired and blue or green eyed is an advantage there but there is for sure a reason for it

  98. jack – in this case it was calculated by mutation rates – carbon dating is not used as it is far to unreliable for only 5000 years back – if you write something about scientific methods then please inform yourself before posting garbage

  99. I agree, I believe we have been dope by those in power who have brainwash us to believe that there is such a thing as different races. In Ancient time, the idea of race did not exist, it was more about tribe, nation than anything else. Someone like Hitler could not escape the fact that he had Jewish and African genes, but yet many saw him as some Messiah for the Aryan race when he himself would not be qualified to be called Aryan. But these are the type of people who are in power feeding the mass lies about race to cause division, wars, conflicts, etc so that we can be too busy killing each other and not see the big picture. The big picture is that we are all being enslaved by those in power, and in order for them to maintain their power, we have to remain focus on fighting each other while they continue with their agenda to have us be their guinea pigs.

  100. At some point the first pale skinned blondes must have been cast out as ‘wierd’ and maybe ended up in a little troop all by themselves, then bred together and perpetuated the streak. It would be very interesting to find evidence of how this happened. Blue eyes appear to be a totally separate thing – plenty of black-haired blue-eyed people & I saw a picture of a dark-skinned Indian girl the other day, with incredibly bright blue eyes. If we could just get people interested enough in where/how all this happened maybe the white population could finally put down it’s hatred of all things ‘non-white’ – we are such a bigoted race !!
    How tiresome that is !

  101. luckily most of us commenters are not hindered in anyway by any knowledge on these subjects so we can freely blahblah our nonsense.. :)

  102. No records of human civilizations beyond thousands of years, the rest is arm waving and “millions of years”/bacteria-to-man “evolution” continues to be the great hoax of our time

  103. Typical obnoxious atheist a-hole who doesn’t comprehend that religious beliefs drive the scientific community and “millions” is based on essentially nothing other than naturalistic religious fiat. As Jack accurately states, radiometric dating of rocks is wildly eratic from formation to formation and basially worthless. More people need to re-learn the definition of TRUE science: observable, testable, and verifiable in real time – everything else is worthless conjecture

  104. I don’t quite get why you are so negative on Jack and what he had to say. Either he is correct or he is not. If he is not correct, you should find it easy to prove. If he correct, it adds to the discussion and challenges that a better way be found even as it acknowledges the weakness of current methods.

  105. Well Jack maybe they should put you in charge of Science and you can solve the issue overnight. If you can’t come up with a solution then you can always fall back on your Religion and if that doesn’t work you can fall back on your Sword.!.!

  106. What’s omitted from the article is how they calculate these dates. All known dating methods, beyond a few thousand years, are flawed and filled with problems. Carbon dating requires a stable magnetic field, but the magnetic field has declined by 7% per 100 years since the early 1800’s, as long as we have measured it. So past 2,000 years, it’s useless. Beyond that carbon dating must be calibrated (guess at) and many times returns these wildly exaggerated dates that are OPINION and not scientific. Radiometric dating has numerous problems the most serious being it has never once been successfully tested on rocks where the creation age is known – instead it always returns dates of millions of years – even on new rocks from the Mt. Saint Helens eruption in 1980 and other eruptions.

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