Markel Event – Tom Gayner & Steve Markel
Markel Corporation (NYSE:MKL)
Questions
- David Winters – what are regulatory limits of wholly owned subs vs publically traded stocks? Impact of markel to market?
- Markel has $2BN to equities – wholly owned comes from holding co. No regulator limit at holding. Only at insurance sub.
- BRK – National Indemnity – has regulatory trade-off.
- Excess liquidity to feel safe? For Berkshire Hathaway it is$20Bn
- $600MM to $1 billion have
- Min of $400MM
- Berkshire Hathaway Inc. (NYSE:BRK.A) (NYSE:BRK.B) is largest holding – Buffett talking about discount of intrinsic value
- CarMax, Inc (NYSE:KMX) is major holding – compound and growth expected
- Fairfax Financial Holdings Limited (TSE:FFH) , Brookfield Asset Management Inc. (NYSE:BAM), Diageo plc (NYSE:DEO), Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (NYSE:WMT), – demonstrate shareholding value wheather via dividends, growth , etc
- Line of business – hardness of pricing vs softness of pricing?
- Across board – relative improvement – “breeze more at back than in face”
- International businesses better – Oil and gas and Cat business pricing stronger
- Long Term liability business not as robust (pricing)
- Workers comp “improving”
- Grep Smicher – repurchase of own shares? Multiple of book value per share to repurchase?
- Generally – like to see shares continually declining – restricted stock is used in comp plan .
- Want to repuraches enough stock to offset share issuance.
- No stated number (such as 1.1x book)
- Valuation closer to right valuation more consistently than BRK.A
- Unlikely to try to buy back a meaningful amount of stock –
- Restricted stock more clear – stock options mirage of real cost – how much spent on comp? Unsure. Restricted stock is clear. Dollar for dollar – treated as expense which flows through business. Markel exemplar of senior execs – 5 years before qualified to earn aand then 5 year vesting period – 10 year window reinforces LT thinking.
- Market Ventures flow of opportunities – dog catching car?
- First reference was 2005 – LBOs had to much leverage and to short of a time horizon.
- AMF Bakery Equipment – guts of commercial equipment.
- Knew Chairman did deal
- 2006 and 2007 did no deals as rest of world was bidding up companies. But got a call from lawyer – Network effects created strong deal flow – pricing on all deals. Half had no investment banker.
- Low interest rates – ramp up capital to Markel Ventures?
- Yes but can’t force deals – 2006 & 2007 they did nothing .
- Troubled business – offered for free – said no. Evidence of discipline.
- Substantial FI portfolio to match and collateralize insurance liabilities. See more than 100% of offsetting liabilities in fixed income.
- How do you think about risk in fixed income? Bonds as investments?
- “Bonds offer return free risk.” Buffett quote yesterday
- Match because they have to – insurance liability is 4 years and bond portfolio is 3.25 years.
- “not concerned about stretching for yield –inflation big risk”
- Growth of intrinsic value of Markel over time?
- Investment leverage is 3x capital base – so growth is underwriting profit + growth on
- Growth of just under 20% per share since IPO due to underwriting profits, and gains from investments.
- Underwriting margins have been thin – growth on pricing is coming and
- Expect to earn strong double digit returns on capital.
- BV per share is good proxy
- Most important factor is “Markel style”
- Feast and famine relative to the rest of the industry? Historic cycles in insurance business?
- Example – difference is standard and excess insurance markets.
- Generalize diff from commodity business and specialty
- 20% specialty and 8% commodity
- Bars and taverns become restaurants in soft markets. When market gets hard, back to bars and taverns
- Specialty lines grow faster in hard markets.
- “Underwriting and investing are similar business” Both driven by people’s behavior – no fear that bull and bear markets will continue.”
- Reinsurance vs insurance?
- Geico – auto – “consumer brand” with franchise
- Gen Re – catastrophic
- National Indemnity – large unusual account (Ajit Jain of Berkshire Hathaway) – reinsurance
- Markel – does some re-insurance but not enough
- Direct business better than reinsurance.
- Right after an event prices spike up – can write big limits at right rates.
- Markel doesn’t play in that market
- How do you build culture to drive LT underwriting culture?
- Create incentives
- Talk about underwriting profit
- Corporate incentives in over 5 year rolling averages
- Need to discuss things in ranges
- Underwriting targets based on amount of float.