Politics

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across The United States

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across The United States

John R. Lott Jr.

Crime Prevention Research Center

John E Whitley

Crime Prevention Research Center; Institute for Defense Analyses

Rebekah C. Riley

Crime Prevention Research Center

July 13, 2015

Abstract:

Since President Obama’s election the number of concealed handgun permits has soared, growing from 4.6 million in 2007 to over 12.8 million this year. Among the findings in our report:

  • The number of concealed handgun permits is increasing at an ever- increasing rate. Over the past year, 1.7 million additional new permits have been issued – a 15.4% increase in just one single year. This is the largest ever single-year increase in the number of concealed handgun permits.
  • 5.2% of the total adult population has a permit.
  • Five states now have more than 10% of their adult population with concealed handgun permits.
  • In ten states, a permit is no longer required to carry in all or virtually all of the state. This is a major reason why legal carrying handguns is growing so much faster than the number of permits.
  • Since 2007, permits for women has increased by 270% and for men by 156%.
  • Some evidence suggests that permit holding by minorities is increasing more than twice as fast as for whites.
  • Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2 (preliminary estimates) per 100,000. This represents a 25% drop in the murder rate at the same time that the percentage of the adult population with permits soared by 156%. Overall violent crime also fell by 25 percent over that period of time.
  • States with the largest increase in permits have seen the largest relative drops in murder rates.
  • Concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors or felonies at one-sixth the rate that police officers are convicted.

Concealed Carry Permit

Concealed Carry Permit Holders Across The United States – Background

Over the years, more and more states have adopted laws to allow individuals to obtain concealed carry permits. Illinois was the last state to do so, with the first permits issued
in March 2014. Even Washington, D.C. started issuing permits earlier this year. Today, permitted concealed handguns are allowed in every jurisdiction in the United States.

But the rules vary greatly from state to state. Some states don’t even require permits, with no fees or  training required. Some states make it easy and cheap to get a permit. In South Dakota, the fee to obtain the  four-year permit is only $10, with no training requirement. Similarly, in Pennsylvania, the permit only costs $19 for five years and there is no training requirement. By contrast, Illinois charges a $150 fee and requires 16 hours of training. With training and range time, it may cost as much as $300, meaning the total dollar costs of getting a permit in Illinois is about $450. Not surprisingly, concealed carry is much more popular in states where  permits are relatively inexpensive and easier to obtain.

This report will focus on the increase in concealed carry. Obviously, the main focus from a crime prevention point of view is whether people actually do carry guns, not whether they are allowed to do so.

Unsurprisingly, the number of permits has grown faster than the number of states that allow concealed carry. This is because in each state, the longer the law is in effect, more and more people have gradually applied and received permits. But there appears to be another factor: President Obama’s election in 2008. Not only did Obama’s election increase gun sales, it also increased the number of concealed handgun permits.

Initially the increase in permits was slow, growing from roughly 2.7 million permit holders in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007. But the number of concealed handgun permits literally exploded during the Obama presidency. For December 2011, the federal Government Accountability Office estimated that there were at least 8 million concealed handgun permits. By the June 2014, it was 11.1 million; in 2015, 12.8 million.

In other words, during the eight years from 1999 to 2007, the number of permits increased by about 240,000 per year. During the next four years, the number of permits surged by 850,000 per year. Then from the end of 2011 to 2013 the yearly increase rose by 1,550,000. And during the last year the increase has continued to accelerate to 1,700,000.

The rapid increase in concealed carry permits is also mirrored by the rapid increase in gun sales. NICS background checks soared from 11.2 to 21 million between 2007 and 2014. The sale of guns accelerated further over the last two years — averaging 14 million during 2008 to 2011 and over 20 million during 2012 and 2013.

But both polling and NICS checks provide only imperfect measures of gun ownership. Polling relies on people’s willingness to reveal whether they own a gun. And the changing political environment after mass shootings or a growing distrust of government may affect people’s willingness to reveal that they own a gun.

Concealed Carry Permit

Concealed Carry Permit

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  • Sherlock

    Maybe you should try it out!

  • JSH

    I NEVER claimed that it was proven that increased gun ownership results in a reduction in violent crime. What I said is that increased gun ownership DOES NOT result in an INCREASE in violent crime. Get it straight.

    As for other factors: liberals have been claiming that if we allow law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms the result would be daily shootouts in public streets, sidewalks saturated with the blood of innocent people. So, let me give you a fact that is indisputable.

    Citizens with concealed carry permits, all over the US, commit fewer crimes than police officers. Year after year we are proven to be the most non-violent, law abiding group of citizens in the world. So, you couple that with the fact that allowing more people to carry concealed legally has NEVER, not one time in the history of permitted concealed carry, ever resulted in an increase in violent crime; regardless of other factors, and there’s no reasonable argument that allow us to carry a weapon will put even one innocent person in danger.

    So, you can take all your research papers and wipe your with them. I know all about problem solving, causation and correlation. I’ve performed numerous, successful experiments using data driven methods to arrive at a solid conclusion on which countermeasures were based. Those countermeasures have never failed. I’ve done everything from Six Sigma projects, DOEs, MVTs, you name it, I’ve done it. So don’t try to blow smoke up my like you’re some damn statistics God. The facts are gun ownership by law abiding citizens DOES NOT, WILL NOT, NEVER HAS equaled violent crime.

  • Sun Kim

    JSH…I used to edit and write academic research papers for a living at one time (especially social science papers) I’m a little familiar with the concept of causality and correlation. You’re actually wrong in your assumption that increase gun owner proves it does not result increased violent crime. Want me to tell you why? There are multiple factors that influence violent crime and those influence can increase and decrease in accordance with other factors. Here is an example: If increase gun ownership RAISES violent crime by 2% but an increase in police resources LOWERS violent crime by 4%…there is an overall decrease in violent crime by 2%…so, it could be that the causal observer (that would be you) is comparing the overall violent crime rate with the one factor of increase in gun ownership and comes to the erroneous conclusion that it is proof the violent crime rate has dropped BECAUSE of increase in gun ownership….when, in fact, it was the increase in policing that caused a greater reduction than the increase in violent crime experienced by increase gun ownership.

    Get it?

  • JSH

    It does however suggest that increased gun ownership MAY reduce violent crime. No, it does not prove it, and I won’t make that claim based on existing information; however, it does PROVE that increased gun ownership does not result in increased violent crime. And that is exactly what the anti-gun crowd has been warning us would happen since the first CCW was proposed.

    So, it’s time the gun-grabbing liberals SHUT THE HELL UP! They’ve been proven wrong time after time. The fact is increased legal gun ownership, and increased LEGAL concealed carry DOES NOT increase crime. And with that fact now thoroughly established there is NO justification for denying law abiding citizens the RIGHT to concealed carry.

  • JSH

    No Monterey, there are not. Tyranny comes in many different shapes and sizes. It doesn’t require an Adolf Hitler that runs around killing people over their religion. In fact, the US government is already bordering on tyranny. The fact that they’re telling us who can carry a gun, when, where, how, how much and what they can carry is a tyrannical characteristic. The fact that they tell us what we can and cannot do with out own bodies, that we can’t grow a plant in our backyard and use it for medicinal purposes, that’s tyrannical. The fact that they tell us we must wear a seat-belt or a motorcycle helmet because they know what’s best for us, that is tyrannical.

    Our government was never intended to act as a parental figure. It’s not the government’s job to tell us we can’t smoke a cigarette or even a joint. It’s not the government’s place to tell us what how to store our firearms because if we don’t lock them up properly our children might shoot themselves. When the government starts making decisions for citizens that should be left up to the citizen to make, they are becoming tyrannical.

    Now, in those countries that do not have widespread firearm ownership it is because the government does not allow private ownership of a firearm. And that fact alone makes it a tyrannical government. So, try again.

  • jimmy z

    It’s a cesspool thanks to Liberal politics.

  • jimmy z

    Google is a wonderful thing.

  • Matt Paris

    Well of course I know that I am not a moron, but the 2nd Amendment didn’t become the 2nd Amendment till it was incorporated as a part of the Bill of Rights on December 15, 1791… That’s all I was saying…

  • Sun Kim

    @John…I dunno buddy. I’ve re-read over some of your responses to me and some of them were assumptive, rude, hypocritical and condescending. You called me illogical and stated my points of view were nonsense. You said I was morally a coward when I had to get offline because I had been posting all day. You called me a liar in one response. You assumed my position was that I wanted to take away a person’s ability to defend themselves…and that wasn’t my position at all. I’ll be happy to back up each one these observations with a example from your own writing if you wish.

    Do you think your own rudeness had to do with your ‘eroding tolerance’ and the fact you ‘didn’t feel good’ (your words as you explain to Geralt)?

    It is too bad we weren’t able to discuss things on a more academic level. The article we were commenting on was a report by John Lott. John Lott is well know for his position / studies on defensive gun use. I had brought up an aspect of his research, that he stated that 98% of DGUs did not involve the actual firing of the gun, just showing it. This is not a lie, I didn’t make that up. I found the idea fascinating and wanted to discuss the overtones / psychology behind the idea that a criminal merely has to think you have a real gun in order to break off his criminal (or potentially criminal) activity. Obviously, my discussing this matter with a theoretical question (replica gun instead of real gun) was just a ruse for my wanting to disarm Americans and make them vulnerable and that I was a coward and a liar and was spewing illogical nonsense….at least that is how you were painting me with your response.

    All that being said: My apologies for being rude and hopefully, if we see each other again online, we’ll have a more reasonable debate.

    Thank you for taking the time to read / respond and I hope you feel better.

  • Russell Sperber

    Lets see if I have this straight… IF I want to carry, you lot continually tell me “you’re not the police. you aren’t qualified to have a gun. you’ll just spray a crowd of innocents, killing dozens, but missing the perp”. But if I don’t protect others, then I’m a monster?

    My number one priority is to protect myself and my family.

    “I sometimes carry a decent sized locking blade knife when I’m out in public…that is a form of protection I choose”

    So killing an attacker with a knife is good, but killing them with a gun is bad. OK, I’m starting to learn “liberal rules”.

  • john

    Just rude, aren’t you? You think that pejoratives add anything like validity to your argument? Think again. You owe me an apology, unless you just want to trade insults. I do not.

  • Sun Kim

    I love when people talk about reality..as if your reality is the same as others…its not….but that is a side note.

    I’m not trying to play a game. I’m trying to expose misunderstanding and correct erroneous ‘facts’ of which there is plenty in the pro-gun realm. Unfortunately I can be abrasive in my responses at times if people try too hard to insult me. Do you know how many times I’ve run across pro-gunners on these boards that erroneously think there was an FBI or CDC study that said there were 2.5 millions defensive gun uses? Well, there isn’t….but incorrect information like that reinforces their belief which means their belief is based on faulty information. I used to edit and write academic research papers for a living at one time and one of the facets of my job was to challenge authors to clarify some of their ideas and to better support their points of views with verifiable fact. One of the aspects of a balanced research paper is one that give credibility to contending ideas or positions and not ignore of outright dismiss them. There is no ‘right answer’ when it comes to the gun debate and there is not one reality on that issue for that matter either. Both sides have valid points and both sides are fraught with disinformation and misunderstanding. I’m actually shocked that John Lott basically said you don’t have even have to actually use your gun 98% of the time in order to stop a bad guy.

    Anyway, its late and I’ve gotta get up early…no, I’m not trying to shirk debate…I actually enjoy debate with informed people but I cringe when I read some of the pro-gunner responses that are based on misinformation.

  • john

    I disagree with you speculation. I have repeatedly tried to explain why is it a bad idea, but you just ignore logic. Your speculation is removed from reality. You still think it is worth betting your life on? suggest you do some homework on gunfights in reality and rethink your theory. I am trying to lead you to enlightenment. To being able to cope with reality. Gunfights are not a game., like you seem to think. You just seem to stubborn claim that your ideas are better than reality. Spoken like a teenaged gamer. What else do you base your thinking on? I know, your ears and mind are closed.

  • Sun Kim

    Again, this isn’t a matter of logic. If you want to make it about something, this is a matter of odds. If 98 times out of 100 you can get away with using a high quality replica gun in order to defend yourself, would you say that was pretty effective (using your word)? Of COURSE if you get into a situation where you actually have to fire the gun for self defense, then you make up the 2% of the time you actually have to fire the gun (if you believe Lotss DGU estimate).

    I’m not saying you should replace your real gun with a high quality replica nor am I saying you should be denied the need for effective self-protection…..that is what you are READING INTO and assuming I’m getting at and thus your reactionary response.

    Why I’m saying is that if all it takes is SHOWING a firearm to thwart 98% of criminal encounters, it would go to reason that to have a high quality replica would be somewhat as effective as if you had a real gun if all it takes is to show the gun in order to stop the crime.

    I think my speculation is reasonable in this instance.

  • john

    Whether he would recognize it as a fake is irrelevant. If he did not, okay…but if he did and called your bluff , what would be the result? That is my answer. You need to stick to the point, or get back to it. I see what you are saying as an effort to control the conversation. You don’t like it much when I do not play that game, do you? You want to commit suicide? Be my guest, but do not expect me to buy into your discussion of what is illogical and fatuous. You just don’t like my answer , do you? That you try to deconstruct my statements, reflects poorly on you logically. I am reality based. You seem to just be argumentative for the sake of entertainment.

  • Sun Kim

    Ok. Lets keep it academic. Noted pro-gun criminologist John Lott, if you agree with him, says that in 98% of defensive gun use, the gun owner only had to show his weapon. What that says is that 98% of the time, you don’t have to USE the gun (not even a warning shot), only SHOW IT, in order to protect yourself. By the way, what that also is saying is that only in 2% of case is the gun actually USED (as in fired) during a defensive situation

    ……if that is the case, then how would a criminal know the difference between a real gun and a high quality prop gun if all it takes is flashing the gun to thwart the criminal?

    That was a question, not a matter of logic. Feel free to answer the question.

  • john

    Would a toy gun if any quality be as effective as a real gun? No, and would you want to bet your life on a bluff? Your question did make a statement. Your question/response is just insulting.Do you really want to start that? I am not attacking YOU but I am attacking your methodology. Do you consider that to be a personal attack? I do not.

  • Sun Kim

    (shaking my head). John, I asked a question, I didn’t make a statement so how can you fault my logic? It is a question. You can say ‘yes, I think it would’ or ‘no, I think it wont’…and then follow with an explanation if you wish after that. Either your replies to my posts are being fueled by emotions or you sense of reasoning is twisted. Were you drinking when you posted? (psst…that is a question by the way)

  • Sun Kim

    Funny you bring up Singapore….very low crime, incredibly hard for citizens to own guns. According to American pro-gunners, they should be at the mercy of all the criminals who CAN get guns…but, by some magic..they’re not. Or maybe its not magic.

  • Sun Kim

    The means / method of suicide plays an important role in the outcome, especially considering not all are successful……similarly, I think you will agree that the type of weapon you use to protect yourself also has a great impact on the outcome. It’s not about ‘blaming’ the tool, it is about taking the characteristics into consideration and not saying “a tool is just a tool”. You might be able to build a house using a nail-file and rock but you’d probably have more efficient results using a saw and a hammer. Tools are not equal. Weapons are not equal.

  • Sun Kim

    So if there were woman, children or elderly around that weren’t armed you wouldn’t assist them because they chose not to carry. Well, okay then.

  • Sun Kim

    First off, I’ve known Geralt for over a year and we have some very good discussions on gun issues…so I’m not ‘losing’ any argument. Secondly, your powers of observation are incredibly poor for you not to notice the time stamps of my other posts and the vast amount of post I’ve put up on this story all day long. Third, Johnny boy, I have fun running circles around people like you but even I get tired of making you look foolish and uneducated….so get over yourself.

  • john

    I do appreciate his courtesy and good manners.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    Hey john. Sun Kim’s ok in my book. We keep it civil, even though we disagree on a few points, and I respect SK for that. Besides SK provides for me both, a different perspective, and a better understanding of the mindset of more moderate gun-control advocates.

  • john

    :-)

  • john

    So you would deny the need for effective self- protection, and just want to play act at being personally able to protect yourself? I fail to see your logic.

  • john

    What a great story! SK, I should apologize to you. I get grumpy when I just don’t feel good, and my tolerance erodes. Want to hear about my sidejob as a Pinkerton’s man?

  • john

    G, you are just more the gentleman than I am. Lately, my tolerance seems to be eroding That happens when I just don’t feel good. Sorry.

  • john

    I have seen this many times before: when someone takes a position, and see that they are losing the argument to facts and logic, they just leave. I call that moral cowardice. When I see it, I just do not know whether it is truth, or just weakness.

  • john

    Just a guess: LOTR?

  • john

    LOL, what kind of logic is that? Brandishing a replica gun would be as effective waving your tits at them. You do not even see your lack of logic, do you? Are you even interested in hearing why?

  • john

    harsh, but understandable why you think that way.r

  • john

    None of them. That is not an answer. cue music from THE TWILIGHT ZONE. I guess my time on JTFB was not on OUR border. It must have been some other border. Why do you find it necessary to lie? Is that because you cannot back up what you say with facts? It is hard to take you seriously. I seem to recall a presidential order that the BP and ICE not take any effective action against illegal aliens crossing the border.

  • john

    why has it continued to decline since the sunset of the bill? I will suggest more guns, decriminalizing citizen carry, and better protection under the law for self-defense.

  • john

    The ones like your friend do not come on here and advocate for unilateral disarmament.

  • john

    You find it logical to bring a fist to a gunfight, or rely on the kindness of people who attack you. Logical and ethical suicide. You would deny everyone else the right to decide for themselves what would be an appropriate response? Nonsense on your part.

  • Monterey

    There are lots of countries with out wide spread fire arm ownership that do not have a problem with tyranny.

  • Gary M.

    I taught military close quarter combat and combatives for over five years. Hand to hand combat or its civil equivalent “martial arts” is a last ditch effort of life saving and taking. I encourage you to go to youtube and search “home invasion” and you will see that in those circumstances even the most accomplished martial artist would fair poorly against armed (gun, knife, bludgeon) intruders. Thugs don’t like to attack alone you know. ( yes.. I know not all of us will experience a home invasion)

    I consider myself quite capable of fighting one or two unarmed assailants but I DO NOT WANT TO because even the best can be beaten, and being beaten in the real world means you are going to die if you lose.

    Also, martial arts are notoriously difficult to master and size disparity makes a difference.. Becoming proficient with a hand gun is possible by any sane person from 8 to 108 and up, regardless of bode size and even regardless of most physical disabilities.

    Lastly, I’m not defenseless without my handgun (I carry every day). My hand gun is a force multiplier that allows me options to control or end an other wise option-less situation.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    “You can make a false threat but if challenged you will be the looser.”

    That’s pretty much what I was attempting to convey to SK, the threat of force will only take one so far before odds begin to catch up, and there’s no substitute for the real thing. With exception to my own military experiences, I’ve never been attacked, and I’m sorry to hear that it happened to you twice, but I’m glad to hear it worked out for you.

    This is what anti-gun leaning folks just don’t seem to understand about defensive gun uses, and what the anti-gun organizations routinely ignore. Most of the time it’s simply the presence and display of a firearm that alters the outcome, but that still counts as a DGU.

  • Russell Sperber

    Since 80% of those 10,000 (perps and victims) are already criminals, maybe the focus should be on keeping them off the streets. Removing my guns affects crime in no way shape or form.

  • Russell Sperber

    “Nice correlation between the increase in CCW and falling violent crime / murder rate (preliminary). Now all you have to do is present clear evidence that one is causing the other and its case closed.”

    Nope. We’ve proven our point. More guns/people armed with guns has not increased crime.

    It’s funny that you lot always invoke correlation=causation in the ban-gun argument. e.g. Australia/UK/Japan has low murder rates and strict gun laws, therefore the murder rate is due to the gun laws. But suddenly, you “realize” the two terms aren’t the same when this study comes out.

  • Russell Sperber

    So this isn’t a boogyman: Dr. Mark Rosenberg, who was then director of the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control at the CDC, explained his aim was to make the public see firearms as “dirty, deadly—and banned.”

    Sounds like he already knows the outcome of any studies he conducts.

  • Russell Sperber

    By relevant you mean like: Dr. Mark Rosenberg, who was then director of the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control at the CDC, explained his aim was to make the public see firearms as “dirty, deadly—and banned.” ?

    How about the CDC actually do what it is SUPPOSED to do – control disease. Remember how unprepared they were for ebola?

  • mmmjam

    Yes, also twice.
    I should also point out that I live in CA. When I lived in AZ where guns are common, things were much calmer.

  • mmmjam

    I agree completely.

  • Russell Sperber

    Do you often run into people who own fire extinguishers who have ever had to use them? If not, do you propose getting rid of fire extinguishers?

  • Russell Sperber

    “I wouldn’t carry a portable defibrillator”

    If I had a history of heart problems I certainly would. I don’t carry things to assist those who choose not to protect themselves.

  • mmmjam

    There is truth in what you say, to a limit. One can not in any way predict the outcome of a violent encounter. You can make a false threat but if challenged you will be the looser. I have had a firearm in my hand two times (outside of military combat and my work environment) and I was completely prepared to use it. Both times the threat was instantly defused, no shots fired. One of the bad guys left a stolen Glock behind. To answer your next question I did not know he had the gun until after fact.

  • Russell Sperber

    “Plus, what makes you think all liberals hate guns or are anti-gun?”

    Because they vote for people who say they will take away our guns or who do take away our guns.

  • mmmjam

    “Do not tempt the dragon with less than an enchanted blade.”
    I read that in collage, back when we had paper books. It was in a short story and stuck with me. I you know the origin please pass it on.

  • mmmjam

    Kim: a good start but not enough. You would find that there would be employers that would just consider this a cost of doing business. I have wondered why the labor unions have not been on board with stopping the influx of cheap labor.
    It has been my contention for years that is the US would place a penalty on the head of every illegal caught using the schools system, medical or working or in the penal system and send the bill to Mexico. Mexico would soon be building the wall for us. I know they would not pay the fines, but yes we could collect the money. Simply take it from the foreign aid we send them. Simplistic, yes. Effective, Most likely.
    Yes this mess can be resolved but as you said, who has the nerve to do it.

  • mmmjam

    Well said. One of the aspects that is often overlooked when discussing the pros and cons of concealed carry is an intangible. I was thought and continue to pass on to others the skills of enhanced situational awareness. No sane person wants to engage in a life or death fight. The best way to avoid that fight is to be aware of your surroundings. I liken it to riding a motorcycle. If you ride like most people drive you will not last a week. This has turned into a very good discussion, very refreshing.

  • mmmjam

    I would bet you are a martial artist. It is a wonderful lifestyle and both physically and mentally a life changer. Where you make a mistake is that your skills alone are not enough. Most violent crime happens quickly, unexpectedly and with extreme violence. I so not care how good you think you are you can not dodge a bullet. One of the most amazing men I know and call friend has been international champion, a military officer in spec ops and a renowned grand master. He also has a carry permit. Your training teaches you to never underestimate an opponent. A weapon, a firearm in particular changes the dynamic. If the opponent is close you may well have the upper hand but if he is just one step out of reach you may well be a dead man. Skill with arms is, like martial arts, is acquired with long and dedicated practice though the learning curve is much faster. The real difference is that one without skills in unarmed combat has no chance against a person that has. Introduce a firearm and even the most inept can kill with ease.

  • ExNuke

    Singapore is one of the safest countries in the world yet there are signs everywhere reminding people that “Low Crime is not NO Crime”. There are millions of people who play the lotteries even though the odds of winning are minuscule because the cost is minimal and if you do win the payoff is huge. The odds of Needing a Gun are small, the cost of not having one if you do need it …….

  • ExNuke

    I would “feel” more comfortable if there were training and demonstrated knowledge required to vote. The fee for the test would be “reasonable”, less than $1000.

  • ExNuke

    Or New York City.

  • ExNuke

    Yes, people should be trained in firearms safety whether they own a gun or not. No one can be certain they will never be exposed to a gun. The problem with a law requiring that training as a precondition to owning a gun is the same as the earlier Laws requiring a literacy test and/or Poll Tax in order to vote. Whether you are willing to admit it or not there are politicians who would use that requirement to discriminate against people who they “felt” should not have guns. Basically anyone who didn’t support them in the last election and doesn’t give them money. Who gets to write the test? Mike Bloomberg? Joshua Horwitz? Chuck Schumer? Leland Yee? How much is the fee to exercise a Constitutional Right, $1, $10, $100, $1000, $10,000? There are existing laws to punish anything harmful that can be done with a gun, and a lot of laws to punish acts that harm on one and nothing involving a gun. There are no magic laws that can prevent a person from being stupid, insane or a criminal. Passing laws is not intended to control crime, they are passed to create criminals.

  • OHJonesy

    I agree with you, SK, a person is not defenseless without a firearm, but it is important to qualify that statement. I have friends with Black Belts in Karate and Tae Kwon Do who would certainly fare better against an attacker, than a 110 lb young woman, or a 60 year old man or woman.

    A gun is no magic talisman that guarantees the good guy wins the fight every time. It’s simply the great equalizer that puts a smaller and/or weaker person on a more equal footing with an attacker.

  • ExNuke

    Yes they are, sort of like the various Gun Ban groups. Fear sells almost as good as sex. Everybody should be afraid, the real world is a dangerous place. There is something for anyone to be afraid of without trying very hard. Lying to yourself that because you “Feel Safe” you really are, when no one is “Safe” is delusional. I’m not “Safe” because I own or carry a gun, or because I religiously wear a seat belt, or because I eat “organic” kale. (I don’t really, that stuff is inedible). If you find yourself “Feeling Safe” when you haven’t done everything you personally can do to ensure your safety you’re lying to yourself. Hoping that 300,000,000+ people will all cooperate to keep you safe because some politician says they have to is stupid.

  • pepe

    I had to use a gun to prevent a home invasion and as long as there are control freaks that want to disarm me, I will fight them. Go away, control freak.

  • ExNuke

    So you were happier when guns in the hands of criminals and lunatics killed 15,000 a year. Got it. Death and injury by firearms has decreased, some part of that can be attributed to increased Concealed Carry but more can probably be due to an increased number of people getting educated in the real life use of firearms. TV and Hollywood have consistently misrepresented firearms and “gun violence” and too many people have accepted their special effects and scripts as gospel. Even, or especially, if you hate and fear guns you need to learn about them, ignorance kills. With the sheer numbers of guns in the US you can not depend on never being exposed to one and not knowing what to do safely can get you or someone else killed or injured.

  • pepe

    The right to bear arms has nothing to do with landmines and sharpened sticks. Your desire to disarm your political enemies has caused you to make another ridiculous comment. Maybe if you weren’t such a weak, immature coward, you would understand what the 2nd amendment is about.

  • Harry

    What are you going to do with that replica when he starts shooting at you?

  • Moonpup

    To start off, yes (he says reluctantly) I am an NRA member as well as a veteran of US Army and NATO forces. As I’ve stated before, I don’t agree with all there policies but believe that, at this time, they are foremost in protecting 2nd Amendment rights. Re-read a NPR (naturally attempting to be one-sided, but…) interview with a Kentucky farmer named James Gash who rather eloquently stated that he isn’t an NRA member “Probably because of the stridency of the rhetoric. I don’t think the
    rhetoric matches the sentiment of the bulk of the population.” I think that this is an action-reaction type of thing, the liberals distort or ignore the truth in order to limit firearms and the NRA responds by pushing to extreme in the other way feeling that any concession is a loss. I pay my dues but ignore the many requests for additional sums and/or the items for sale.

  • Harry

    Not everyone on portable oxygen was a smoker! My 3 year old Grandson has been on it since a couple minutes after he was born.

    However, the rest of your comment is spot on! I’m already on the list to get a phaser!

  • Moonpup

    Thank you for that excellent summation (and the humorous example).

  • ELSEVAR

    Dadgumit. Another site which disallows hotlinks! Weird. I sure wish they would tell you in advance.

  • Larry Coleman

    If you are the invisible man ,you’ll be ok.

  • Hemor Floyd

    and the liberals want to blame rising gun sales on the NRA ? we the people (excluding liberals)

    are afraid of gov tyrany, 0bomb Hussein.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    What you say is true. But isn’t the real problem one of the decision of a person to commit suicide rather than the means? Again we seem to blame the tool which is a gun rather than the troubled mind.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    what if the bad guy has a gun? equality in tool use,. The best way to go to a knife fight is to carry a gun.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    I have always believed that when a felon serves his time, that is enough, He should be made whole again and regain his rights. Justice will punish them forever. if they can’t find a decent life, they will do what they know . In Illinois if you don’t qualify for a CCW permit, you can still buy one at the local car wash or other places of business. On the sidewalk or ally of course. Anyone can get a gun. I just happened to jump through all the hoops. So mine are legal.

  • Jay Redmon

    Please explain why crime DOES drop. It ISN’T due to increased incarceration rates. It ISN’T due to increased access to education. It ISN’T because of more opportunities for HONEST work. So….what Is the reason?

  • williamdiamon

    You are correct, in my case or her case actually, the robber didn’t charge their gun. I found out when the detective told me two days later, the gun’s magazine was full but it had nothing in the chamber. They didn’t think to pull the slide back for the first shot. ( I told him I blamed that on the public school system. )

    I consider myself extremely lucky for this fact as she was trying as hard as she could to fire her gun at me, as I was shooting back. This however is a rarity, don’t count on inexperienced armed criminals in your travels, they succeed at murder for profit least 4,000 times a year.

    Their intentions were to get the money as conveniently as possible I’m sure. Yet by screaming at the clerk she convinced me she was going to shoot him, also, when I told them to drop their gun they instead turned to shoot me. A this point there is no question of “call”, they fully intended to shoot me, in no uncertain terms, evidenced by their actions.

    As to the record of concealed carry, Concealed Carry gun owners are arrested for crime at a lower rate then police are, they also shoot negligently at 1/5th the rate for police. You are safer around the law abiding gun owner then you are around police. That means even police are safer around the law abiding gun owner, then they are around other police. Think about that.

  • sixteenguns

    The rock was a tool, then used as defense, the knife was a tool, then used for defense, seems alot of tools were converted to defense, the gun was a tool used to hunt, now it’s used for defense because it’s the best tool we have at this time, when they make phasers, it will be a tool used for defense, hope they get the stun part to work right. Anyhow, only people that really don’t like guns, are the people that’s never been a victim. I don’t see the need of anyone having portable oxygen, but then I’ve never smoked, so I’ll not comment on how stupid those people are. If you’ve never been a victim of someone at knife or gun point, then the intelligent thing for you victimless people to do, is um keep quiet. And how do you suppose a person, that picks your doorlock, and enters your daughters bedroom, should be confronted, with a cell phone, or with a .45
    1911, because even tho anti gunners don’t like it, those things happen to real people. And the thought that, “hey that homeowner might have a “GUN” is only thing that keeps even more crime like this from happening. It’s sure isn’t the scare of
    going to prison, otherwise, our PRISONS WOULDN’T BE FULL!

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    Have a good night SK.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    Absolutely. The vast majority of the time, the threat of force carries the day. You see this within all of society, and thankfully too. It’s the “2%”, one has to be concerned with, since just like in ‘poker’, sooner or later someone is going to call a bluff, or what they think is a bluff.

    I was watching a Disney nature ‘doc’ narrated by Samuel L Jackson, called “African Cats”, and in it this lioness was out trying to hunt, but she didn’t much care for it when all the water buffalo ganged up on her, and sent her packing. The “threat” of force even works on lions. It’s really a fascinating concept. ;)

  • williamdiamon

    I would run towards the gunfire. The reason being, being capable of defending myself, and the innocent I would be shamed if I let fear overcome my sense of responsibility to my fellow man.
    Being disarmed your best bet is to gather loved ones and run away from it. If not carrying anything that appears to be a gun in your hands you will probably not be shot by police. Remember to obey their commands.

  • Sun Kim

    I’m out of here….been posting online way too much today. See you around!

  • Sun Kim

    Wanna hear something funny? In the 90s I knew this hulking guy (former pro-wrestler, 6’2″ 280 lbs) who collected illegal debts but had retired from that profession. He would occasionally tell me of some of his collection adventures and techniques but the one thing he mentioned that I never forgot was this: “It’s not the violence that gets people to pay….its the THREAT of violence. I usually just show up at someone’s house and remind them of their debt and tell them that they really don’t want me to come back or have to chase them down.”

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    Thanks SK, I think I read that already, but I’ll look that up to be certain, appreciate it.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    That’s funny, only you and one other person has called me ‘Ghost Rider’ (which I can’t say I object to), and I’m certain you know who that dance partner other person is. :)

    I agree, a person is not defenseless without a firearm. However it’s all relative, since firearms do exist, and there are circumstances that an individual might find themselves in where they would be at a profound disadvantage without one though, which was my primary point.

  • Sun Kim

    I was going to tell you….I ran across a very interesting article on how early American expansion had a cultural / regional impact on the way guns are viewed in society today. It was a unique take on the gun issue that was interesting and refreshing to read. As a person who enjoys reading history, you might like it. Do a web search on this title: ‘There’s An Excellent Reason Why Gun Control Is One Of The Most Divisive Fights In America’ by Matthew Speiser

    Check it out if you get a chance.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    “Thats pretty amazing if you ask me! It goes to show that the visual or idea or a person armed with a gun is 98% more effective than the actual use of the gun”

    Hey SK. Yes I do consider myself to be a reasonable, and objective individual, and I base my beliefs on facts and evidence. I’m not really keen on basing assertions on studies, since a study’s methodology greatly impacts its conclusions, relative to the dataset. That’s not to suggest that studies are not useful. People on both sides of this issue resort to their confirmation biases all too often, especially when waiving a study that supports their preformed conclusions, and this is not helpful.

    No problem with your logic, I agree in fact. This is because the appearance of being armed implies the threat of force, and force, real or perceived, is where that power comes from, and this concept is found throughout the planet, from the animal kingdom, to individual human beings, whole societies, and the organizations that govern them.
    You see it everywhere, for instance: “I’m calling the police”. This simple phrase, depending on context of course, is a threat of force by proxy, one that is meant to illicit a proscribed response. If a person pulls out a gun to halt an attack, or some other violation of an individuals rights, if the attacker stops, it’s because the balance of power and that dynamic has fundamentally changed. But once again, this is fully dependent on that threat of force being backed up by actual force.

  • Sun Kim

    Now we’re talking scenarios. Of course if my friends or family members are with me, I probably wont run for the exits unless I can take them with me. If I’m at at a grammar school or a playground and someone starts opening up on the kids, I’m not going to run. But, if I’m at a mall or a Walmart and I hear shooting happening….I’m not going to run towards the action, I’m running away from it. I’m not trained for that and, with my luck, the cops will probably think I’m the shooter and gun me down.

  • Sun Kim

    I know your story William because I’ve seen your posts in other gun-related news article comments sections. Its a tough call. Most robbers, especially crack heads looking for a quick score, usually are not the type that shoot people during a robbery unless provoked…sometimes they don’t even have bullets in the guns or the guns aren’t working. Most robbers want to get the money and leave, not murder the customers….but it does happen and the tough part is, you just don’t know. I’m glad things worked out for you the way they did and, as I’ve said many many times, I’m not against conceal carry, I just want people to have a lot more training before being allowed to carry in public….but, to some, that crazy idea makes me a ‘gun grabber’. LOL.

  • williamdiamon

    That’s why Trump is so popular now. Yet your idea is even better than his – We wouldn’t even have to build the fence – saving millions.

  • williamdiamon

    Hmmm, do you scream well too? How do you defend loved ones or the innocent? What if there was no cover nearby?

  • williamdiamon

    I have, someone else asked about it not long ago so I’ve copied it here for you. This is what happened, it was an interrupted armed robbery in a store one evening.

    An interesting fact, the police were actually called before the robber even entered the store by a “third” clerk. He was eating supper next door when he saw the robber walking down the sidewalk putting on a bandana and drawing their gun. The clerk knew his store was the last one in the strip mall and the target, so he called the police then. (start that “when seconds count” clock now.)

    In the store I heard someone say “put it in the bag” 3 or 4 times, louder and more forceful each time. Looking at the commotion at the register I saw a clown. They actually looked like a professional clown, puffed up hair like Ronald McDonald, cover-all type painters pants with what I thought was a hoop in it, just no funny shoes. I thought I was watching a “punked” prank joke being played out, to spoof the clerks. Then I noticed the bandana, cowboy style, all I could see was their eyes. Then looked for an orange tip on the barrel, as any real clown would use a fake gun. No orange tip. They were holding their gun at the clerk kneeling in front of the safe.

    One look at a second clerk at the other end of the counter though told me this wasn’t a real clown or a prank. The fear and stress in his face explained the severity of the situation, in no uncertain terms.

    They pointed their gun at each of our faces and held us at gunpoint while we put our hands in the air. They then turned back to the clerk kneeling in front of the safe, screaming at the clerk not to press the alarm, indicating they were about to shoot him.

    By the time they were screaming and I had drawn my gun I had tunnel vision.
    I warned them to “Drop the gun”, loud and clear. They had the opportunity not to get shot by placing their gun down, they didn’t take it. Instead they turned back to me aiming at me, to shoot me. I shot four times and hit them twice, all while they were trying to shoot me. All I could see was the center mass of their body. In their case, their hips. The adrenaline and fear of knowing they were by then shooting at me negated any precision shooting, but it worked. They backed out of the store I reloaded and followed to be sure they we not threating anyone else, I knew their extended magazine must still have had rounds in it. They were gone though as they had a “get away” car waiting for them.

    The other customers left and the “third” clerk entered. The first news van arrived in about 30 seconds. The first police car about five minutes later. ( stop that “when seconds count” clock now.)

    The police were gentlemen, quite unlike they’re made out to be in some other horror stories of defensive gun uses. It fact they called me a hero to the news cameras, very kind of them as I had no idea what their response would be. Everything had happened in an almost surreal atmosphere I had no idea how law would apply.

    The first thing the police did was to separate us and have everyone write an account of the event. Three and a half hours later, after everyone else was interviewed the detective got to me. He told me the robber was a 16 year old girl, they had arrested her when the driver left her at a hospital.
    That’s why their hips were so prominent and the center of my tunnel vision. “Nice shooting” was one of their remarks to me.

    Two days later a LEO called me to talk about the incident. Eventually he asked if that was my only carry gun as mine was in the evidence locker until trial. He offered to buy me a new one, I thanked him and explained that I had already picked up another the day after. Very considerate of them.

    The armed robber spent two days in the hospital, shot once in the leg and hip. Six months in county jail during their trial and sentenced to 2 1/2 years. I hope they’ve turned their life around.
    A few years later I met the robber’s drug dealer by chance. They explained that both the robber and driver had been robbing stores to support their crack cocaine habit and hadn’t seen them since the robbery, so they may well have.

    When it was happening I thought through my 16 hour concealed carry class and came up blank. Then I remembered something someone said to me once, it was the best advice ever given to me about these situations, and what dictated my actions that night,

    ” If you see someone holding a gun on a clerk during a robbery, draw your gun and hold it on them, but don’t fire. If they turn their gun to you, Fire.”

    Keep that simple mechanism in your mind if you ever find yourself in a similar situation. It may save your life.

    The criminal was underage and not legally able to possess the handgun they used, law did not prevent them though, neither did law against threatening with a firearm, assault with a firearm, armed robbery, attempted murder, fleeing, or countless other laws broken.
    The one law that made the difference to the eight innocent people in that store was the law that allowed concealed carry. It allowed someone to defend against an armed criminal. a Defensive Gun Use, and it happens some 1.5 million times a year. It is only because Americans are armed that our death toll is not higher then it is.

    It was horrifying as it was happening, and fortunately it was some years ago and had a beneign ending so I can laugh about it now. Thanks for asking.

  • Sun Kim

    My first response when someone is shooting at me..take cover…not shoot back. I’m not trained to handle a shootout so if there is an exit door near where I’m taking cover…even if I have a gun…I’m going out that way.

  • Sun Kim

    I go to Mexico about 2 to 3 times a year and I can assure you the borders with Mexico are far from open. Take away the Border Patrol and ICE and you’ll see what a real open border will look like. You wanna stop them from coming over? 10 years mandatory jail time for any person knowingly hiring illegal aliens and $1 million fine for any companies or corporation knowingly hiring any illegal alien. Which political party has the stones to do that though?

  • williamdiamon

    What if they fire at you? Don’t bring a toy to a gun fight. Not a game, you can’t hit “reset” in real life.

    The proper response, when someone is shooting at you, is to shoot back. You will need a gun for this. It is also the only way to protect an innocent, If you care as much about people as you think you do. If you do not have a gun, call police. Why? Because they have a gun. / Reread paragraph until it sinks in.

  • Sun Kim

    Of course if firearms were banned criminals would be less likely to believe a replica…I wasn’t going in that direction that they could be replaced by a replica if there was ban.

    Your a person that believes in basing opinions or viewpoints on stats and studies rather than emotion right? Ok. Here we have a respected pro-gun criminologist (John Lott) saying that 98% of the time you only have to show your gun in order to successfully defend yourself. Thats pretty amazing if you ask me! It goes to show that the visual or idea or a person armed with a gun is 98% more effective than the actual use of the gun. Holy crap, you don’t even have to have a real gun…just something that looks like a real gun…in order to defend yourself 98% of the time.

    How does that idea not appeal to someone who bases their opinions on facts or stats?

  • BDD

    With the open boarders. Unfortunately thanks to bad judgment calls, we got undocumented hoodlums. And they hope you do not have protection.

  • Sun Kim

    Hey there ‘Ghost Rider”….or is that ‘Ghost Writer’. LOL.

    I agree with most of what you’re saying and I was editing in my last sentence during your response. I think my point was a simple one: a person is not defenseless if they are without a firearm. You would think that was common sense but it still amazes me to this day that people will say or imply that someone is defenseless if they don’t have a gun.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    If you go strictly by the statistics, a replica would probably provide for the similar results, but this is contingent on a criminal or unlawful individual believing that it is real, something that is easy to do in a society as heavily armed as the United States. Hypothetically, if firearms were banned, and the sale of replicas to lawful individuals increased, while real firearms decreased, criminals, who are not stupid, would undoubtedly begin calling bluffs more often, potentially creating something of a domino effect, but I believe initially a replica would work.

  • Geralt_0f_Rivia

    “People were doing it for thousands of years before there were guns”

    That’s true, for time immemorial human beings have provided for their own defense with whatever they could. Once upon a time (respectively), a rock, club, spear, or a sword (etc), was ‘state of the art’. And of course before firearms were invented, these people didn’t have to worry about fending off an attacker that had a firearm, without having one themselves. Individuals or small groups had to worry about more physically powerful individuals, or larger groups, as the numbers game was where the real power came from.
    Todays a little bit different. A firearm today is the best means of self-defense, especially against an attacker that also possesses a firearm, or against a number of attackers who don’t. It’s the balance of power, and nothing does a better job of leveling the playing field then a firearm.

  • Sun Kim

    My point? You did see the first two words of my question right? “Just curious”. I was asking for my own interest because I don’t often run into CC holders that have actually used their guns to defend themselves.

  • tumbleweed

    So do the gays, what do they represent 8-10%, the had a huge influence

  • Sun Kim

    I was asking 2mules…but okay. According to John Lott, the author of this study, you make up the highly uncommon 2% of firearms owners who actually fired their guns in self defense. Something tells me there was more to this than just a robbery though. Most robbers don’t start firing on their victims AFTER they get the money…that is just stupid…but we have jails filled with dumb criminals so yea. Good for you.

  • tumbleweed

    why don’t you concern yourself with the 10K thugs and deport those that needing deporting and lock up the others…..

  • Sun Kim

    Pepe, if you used a landmine or a hidden pit filled with sharpened bamboo stick to successfully defend your home from a trespasser, that doesn’t justify using landmines or a hidden pits with sharpened bamboo sticks to defend your home.

  • tumbleweed

    HK. it also appears from the amount of post that she is unemployed and just sucking off the system like every other good liberal.

  • pepe

    You continually lie and are not to be believed. Last time I read your comments, you claimed to live in south central L.A. and were in a gang. You will tell any lie to promote gun control and confiscation. “I’ve been to too many funerals with bullet ridden bodies.” You remember telling that lie? I do. Liar.

  • tumbleweed

    Yes, the thug started firing on me after I gave hime the money, I was able to return fire and persuade the POS it was better to flee the scene..

  • tumbleweed

    yes, twice…..and your point?

  • Sun Kim

    Sure pepe, sure.

  • tumbleweed

    I knew it wouldn’t take you long

  • pepe

    Your argument is a stupid one. Very few mentally ill are violent and if someone wants to kill, you aren’t going to stop them with a law. Now shut up and go away.

  • Sun Kim

    Why do some people think they are defenseless without a firearm? I can assure you, it is actually very possible to defend yourself without a gun. People were doing it for thousands of years before there were guns and I’m pretty sure most attacks to this day are still defended without the use of a gun. A gun might make it easier and be more effective at defending oneself in certain situations but I’m kind of tired of hearing that people are defenseless without a gun.

  • pepe

    One is enough to justify owning a gun. Thank you.

  • pepe

    If one defensive use occurs, than the right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed. Thank you for agreeing that private gun ownership saves lives.

  • Sun Kim

    It seems crime rates were falling even when the ‘gun-grabbers’ had the draconian Assault Weapons Ban in place. You’d think the criminals would have taken over during those dark years. LOL.

  • Sun Kim

    Why not? The only thing I can see that it proves is that the increase in CC permit holders doesn’t seem to be driving the crime rate up (although I wonder what the crime rate would look like if there was no expansion of carry laws). It sure does’t prove that crime is dropping because of increased CC permit holders.

    Plus, what makes you think all liberals hate guns or are anti-gun? I’m a liberal and I own a shotgun…my best friend is an Obama Democrat and has a Glock 19 and an M&P45.

  • Sun Kim

    I wonder how many gun owners know that in 98 out of 100 times you don’t need a real gun to defend yourself and that all it takes in a VAST MAJORITY of situations is the image of the gun in the persons hand or waistband or in a holster. That, of course is IF you believe Lott’s assessment of DGU in this matter (I don’t).

  • Harold

    The liberates won’t like this.

  • Sun Kim

    Thus the ‘high quality replica’ remark so that the bad guy doesn’t figure it out.

  • Sun Kim

    I see, so you never actually had to use it after carrying it around for 50 years. Good for you. Let me ask you this follow up question: were the potential attackers armed with firearms?

  • Sun Kim

    What if the CDC wanted conduct studies that explored the relationship between different aspects of mental health and firearms? You think its the FBI’s to study mental health? Even pro-gunners (probably you too) have openly discussed and pointed out the fact that many of these mass shooters have mental problems. Why can’t the CDC study that? What if the CDC wanted to study the medical costs associated firearm related injuries or the PTSD associated with survivors of gun crimes? You think the Department of Justice is qualified to study those phenomena? Off the top of my head, I just presented 3 medical-related issues that were related to firearms that you say the CDC shouldn’t be able to study since it doesn’t. For many years the CDC has studied obesity and it wasn’t considered a disease…you got a problem with that too? Although the CDC focuses its attention on infectious disease, food borne pathogens, environmental healt it also focuses on occupational safety and health, health promotion, INJURY PREVENTION and educational activities designed to improve the health of all Americans. They are ABSOLUTELY qualified to study how the use of firearms affect the health of American citizens

    As far as the CDC being corrupted by ‘liberal politicians’ who just wanted to take ur gunz….give me boogeyman break already. You’re just afraid they’re going to expose the real costs the right to bear arms has racked up while supposedly protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government. By the way, how many dead, bullet-ridden bodies on the streets of America have stacked up while we wait to stop the tyrannical government we elect ourselves ever few years?

  • ExNuke

    The 90’s CDC “studies” were so bogus and obvious propaganda that even Liberal Politicians couldn’t quote them with a straight face, that is why they were told to get out of the Gun Control business and do their own job. “Center for Disease Control” not “violence” control, or “gun” control or “people” control. The Department of Justice and FBI have continued to collect statistics and do actual “studies” on violence and publish yearly, would you listen to a Cop who said “only trained medical professionals need a healthy Immune System and regular exercise to stay in good shape, YOU can just call a Doctor when you get sick.”? Why would you ask a clinical technician how to protect yourself from violent crime?

  • ExNuke

    Yes, right up until it didn’t. A real, loaded gun doesn’t have to be fired, a replica Can’t Be Fired. There is a better than even chance you would never NEED either one, but if the odds work against you there probably won’t be time to go get a real gun.

  • IHateLibtards33

    Nothing wrong with this. I’m one and carry ever single day, everywhere. Where I live every business owner carries. A couple dumb nigers came up to where we live thinking they were going to knock off the small town jewelry store. When the stupid clown went to go behind the counter holding his weapon, the owner opened fired and hit one of them. They ran out, got into their car and headed south back into Baltimore. The one that was shot was bleeding so bad, the two nigers stopped at an exit and threw him out of the car. He died. Awesome stuff!

  • John Howell

    And meanwhile, the violent crime rate has fallen to about half of what it was at its peak in 1991.

  • 2mules

    As a matter of fact, twice in 50 years of being licensed I had to display my concealed weapon. Both times resulted in the potential attacker deciding it really wasn’t worth dying for..

  • 2mules

    John Lott is correct, I have personal experience in the matter. If you want to use a fake gun be prepared for the bad guy to figure it out and continue with the attack.

  • 2mules

    You just keep living in your dream world and ignore reality. The reality is that actions by Obama fueled the buying of firearms, ammunition and people applying for concealed carry permits. Yes some was fear driven and if you do not fear a President that wants to legislate thru executive order then you really do not deserve the freedom and liberty this country has to offer. Like it or not the end result, for whatever reason, was increased sales and it is a direct result of Obama so my statement is, in fact, correct.

  • Parashooter

    I knew 3 – two that jumped in front of trains – one ran his car into a pole at 80… Should we ban cars (which kill exponentially more people than guns) and Trains too? (come to think of it, there have been 3 or 4 jumpers in my area in the past MONTH) Meanwhile, I’m a gun owner, 90% or my friends are too – don’t know a single one that killed himself. So, John, get your head into daylight and get over your fixation with suicide!

  • notfishing

    Thanks for the edit and I agree with you, if someone uses a firearm they should do it someplace remote where the critters will clean up the mess.

  • Sun Kim

    LOL. I like the term you use…’admitted’….like they didn’t want to know that. It was a study done by the DOJ I believe and, still, that 500K number is a projection / extrapolation based on a relatively small pool of survey respondents. Too bad the NRA used its power to stop the CDC from doing any relevant studies on the gun issue since the early 90s.

  • Sun Kim

    I said this above but according to the same author of this study (John Lott), 98% of defensive gun use is by brandishing not actually firing the gun to defend yourself. Funny platitude by the way. There are so many things you don’t need until you need them…that doesn’t mean you carry them on your person everywhere you go. For instance, I wouldn’t carry a portable defibrillator with me if I was going to the movie theater or eating at a restaurant but it sure would come in handy if someone was experiencing a cardiac arrest there.

  • richard kluesek

    I’ve taken training, ongoing, both personally and under professional uniformed auspices, and so have the other authorized gunslingers besides active sworn lawmen I’ve been acquainted with. And I like the recreational aspect and comradrere of the gun club scene. Its not a magic talisman and can go against you in many ways if not mastered and prepared for. But I object to the progressive mantra that the villains are invincible and that unless one is a police officer (who miss 80% of the time on duty and many of whom do not like to train and barely qualify) you cannot be armed and will always be defeated. Perps for the most part have no training and are under the substance influences and panic shoot indiscriminately, recklessly endangering the rest of the world within range. I was lucky never to have the card called to drop the hammer and I would not cheerfully accept being disarmed even since retirement, and will resist any and all lobbying and government attempts to do so. I’m glad you survived evil, and respect your choice and wish you safety, peace, prosperty,and well being. But not everyone is fleet of foot to outrun a perp or overcome in hand to hand, especially if outnumbered and / or protecting another less able.

  • gvm442

    In the 90’s, the Clinton Justice Dept admitted the number was at least 500,000 per year.

  • Sun Kim

    THIS IS INTERESTING:

    According to John Lott, 98% of defensive gun use was accomplished by simply brandishing the firearm.

    Does that mean a high quality replica gun that you don’t need a permit for would be equally effective in close to the same amount of situations?

  • Sun Kim

    Right on.

  • Sun Kim

    What is ‘a lot’?

  • Sun Kim

    California is awesome…except this drought sucks and freeways are crowded.

  • Sun Kim

    It does make sense and I probably should have made my example a little more detailed…so here’s looking at you kid:

    “If crime in your neighborhood was dropping precipitously, would you be putting up new bars on your windows and barbwire on your fence….even though that wasn’t the reason crime was dropping?”

  • Sun Kim

    I’ll do my best….what reason do you want me to explain?

  • Sun Kim

    Thanks for the thoughtful response Richard

    If the potential perps know you’re armed, then yes, it could get them to change their minds…or it could also motivate them to get the drop on you and shoot your first and then take your gun as well as whatever else you have.

    I grew up in South Los Angeles and worked for a delivery service for 3 years. I got robbed 3 times at gunpoint where they took my money and/or my delivery. I just gave them what they wanted and they left and I never got harmed….and, amazingly, all 3 were eventually arrested..(I beat the crap out of one guy who had his finger in his pocket and tried to rob me).

    I’m not against CCW but I would feel a lot more comfortable if training was mandatory and ongoing. Heck, I think anyone that wants to own the gun should have to prove they can use it and store it properly…but thats another topic. Lastly, I don’t think more guns = less crime…there just doesn’t seem to be enough/any unequivocal evidence to support that theory.

  • Sun Kim

    I think the fear of confiscation is over-blown and hyped…just like I think fear of our elected government is as well. The propaganda machine is strong. You know how many people I chatted with back in 2009 that were certain the newly elected president Obama was building a private army based on some bloggers misinterpretation of something senator Obama has said on the 2008 campaign trail? How many times I’ve heard people compare Obama and the Democrats to gun grabbing Nazis? How many people are hording bullets because they think the government is trying to shut down all the production plants? It is FEAR that is driving the market…unsubstantiated fear in most cases in my opinion…fears that are fanned and exaggerated by groups who financially benefit from those fears.

  • Jay Redmon

    Yes

  • Sun Kim

    Well thanks for not getting mad. Are you an NRA member? I would highly recommend you read a book written by former NRA and gun industry top lobbyist Richard Feldman titled “Ricochet: Confession of a Gun Lobbyist” Its not so much of a trash-talking book but will give you an interesting inside look at what has gone on behind the scenes at the NRA and some of the firearm industry organizations. The NRA is REALLY GOOD at fear mongering to generate sales and revenues for their organization from its members. It benefits their organization’s coffers to keep 2nd Amendment threats alive rather than resolve those threats.

  • Sun Kim

    (see my reply to pepe)

  • Sun Kim

    Actually, I own a Remington tactical shotgun and I don’t hate guns. What I’m not comfortable with is that firearms are used in 10,000 U.S. homicides EVERY SINGLE YEAR and over 100,000 non-fatal but serious injuries. There are multi-millions of tax dollars that have to be used to pay and compensate for gun-related crimes as well. My question is ‘How can YOU be comfortable with those kinds of numbers?’

  • richard kluesek

    Moonpup the NRA back in the ’60s was a getlemans sporting organization. The ILA institute for legislative action was part of the transfiguration in reaction to the Progressives drive to terminate private possession of firearms. Great Britian was the model. There the gun ownership advocacy group maintained the ‘stiff upper lip’ posture above the political conversation and lost everything after the Dunblane atrocity in 1996. Neal Knox and other pragmatists in the NRA tokk a militant posture to resist, because compromise is never enough the other side keeps renegotiating for more until nothing is left. Its sort of like a nudist and a fully clothed person,haggling, the nudest has nothing to concede or relinquish and continues on until the other is fully stripped down as well.

  • Sun Kim

    From what I know, the FBI does not say that at all. Gary Kleck said that there are between 500K to 2.5 million estimated defensive gun uses. Estimated / extrapolated off a relatively small sample size over 20 years ago that is. If the FBI said that, please point it out and I will totally retract what I just said….the question is, will you retract what you said if you can’t prove it?

  • richard kluesek

    William Dowling been where you were, God be with us both, check out my reply posting below to jimmy and Sun Kim, but did not mention to them what I shared with you, because you were there too.

  • richard kluesek

    Professor Lott in the table of statistics of the pistol license raw numbers by state, I was astonished to see how few are in New York state, it was 15,000. The county where I once resided had 80,000 on file since 1911 until an audit in 2001 cleared out irrelevants (moved, deceased, revoked, etc.) and amended the figure to 16,000. In this last 15 or so years have that many more been dropped statewide to have such a small total ? If so, that would explain why the Governor so arrogantly steamrollered the 2013 SAFE Act. And NYC is difficult to measure as they do not divulge data but surely there are many thousands of private contract security personnel, retired officers, etc.

  • richard kluesek

    jimmy and Sun Kim violence does drop because you are ‘enabled.’ I was in a cash ‘n carry auto parts high risk business in an urban ghetto for 30+ years. I “packed” and so did some of my associates, colleagues, competitors, and employees. We were never “‘jacked'” but the others who did not carry because they personally did not believe in guns or were ineligible to get a license from the police were mugged at gun and knife point frequently. One guy was stabbed to death, another’s son was executed behind the store’s cash register counter, a few were badly beaten up in different occurrences. One of my circle shot 2 perps to death and and another wounded 2 in a separate incident. Both immediately terminated their businesses and anonymously relocated, its no fun. Both were exonerated and allowed to keep their guns and licenses but voluntarily relinquished these My business was marked by grafetti which I had professionally removed. The cleaner left a dot and lightening bolts fashioned to a triangle (a 4) and an S (5). He said leave that there, its a genuine gang sign for .45 advertising to the brothers an armed carrier, they know how to spot that in a reconnaissance. Was not challenged thereafter.

  • Rich

    One of the biggest reasons that I left Maryland was gun laws. Baltimore is becoming a war zone and the government still won’t grant a concealed carry permit unless you know someone. The good reason clause is just a way of blocking everyone.

  • Moonpup

    Probably true, if my sixth grade math is correct, 5% of gun owners would probably be about 1.5% of population. Even if polls about firearms are often misleading – ask someone in person if they own one or more firearms and most will deny it – it’s sad to think that people “think” or assume that they are members of NRA. As I said below, many people don’t agree with all of the opinions and positions of the NRA but realize that, at this time, it’s the best thing we have to protect our rights.

  • pepe

    Sun Kim is a control freak or a criminal, that wishes to remove peoples self defense.

  • pepe

    The FBI says over 2.5 million times a year, a privately owned gun is used to stop a crime. Did you want the number of crimes to go up? Maybe we should turn the rest of America into a gun free Chicago, so more and more people will die because of some loony’s irrational and immature fear of a weapon.

  • Tom Thornburg

    LOL… That’s funny one was in Dallas, bad neighborhood, the other a Truck Stop near my Ranch in Texas… ex Father in Law, His mouth wrote a check his butt couldn’t cover, so he had to pull out a gun.

  • richard kluesek

    Sun Kom I appreciate your point and it is well made, BUT Obama and the long line of anti private possession of firearms zealots, both government and non government capacity, have been making the pronouncement for the 50 years worth of history that I have studied. I think it starts with the JFK RFK MLK assassinations, when the media and Progressive political movement turned on the issue. From that point forward they have pronounced the intent to register, restrict technology, and eventually confiscate, so people react by buying while able and voting against the proponents and measures.

  • William Dowling

    I have drawn my gun twice, but never had to fire a shot. I hold the philosophy that if you draw your gun, be willing and ready to fire it; the situation has become that serious. However, in both cases, something instantly changed in-between the time I drew and opted not to fire. Had some element of assessment of the situation not changed, I surely would have fired; and continued firing until the threat was abated. Perhaps just having a gun changed the odds a bit. I hear all the time, “You don’t need a gun”. “You don’t need high capacity magazines”. You don’t need to carry a gun on a daily basis”. “You don’t need, you don’t need, you don’t need…”. You’re right! No one needs any of those things, …until they need it!

  • richard kluesek

    Moonpup I recollect a 2008 preObama era article, either by Lott or Krauthammer, that though the NRA roster claims about 5% of estimated gun owners, that when owners in general are polled, about 15% ‘think’ they are NRA members because of their local gun club affiliation, and an overwhelming majority because of personal agreement with NRA issue positions.

  • richard kluesek

    Well said to a lesser degree I know of a few peers in that situation, and the ones who actually ‘pulled the trigger’ (no pun intended) did so by other various means (pills, personal health neglect, single vehicle collisions into steel pillars, etc), and sometimes they just die naturally because they have mentally given up.

  • grifhunter

    Really. You can’t carry a pistol in your home in California? At a range? I’d like to see a statute to that effect.

  • Moonpup

    I don’t get mad while engaged in honest discussion, I’m also not disputing the amount of monies donated to the NRA; my point is that there are large numbers of citizens who have an abiding interest in the preservation of a Constitutional right that is being threatened. The fact alone that the NRA has a large sum of money wouldn’t give them political influence if their agenda wasn’t backed by the people; as was said, 1.5% of US citizens are members of NRA but 5.2% of US have a permit. When you factor in those who use long guns or shoot pistols/revolvers for fun or competition but don’t have permits, the number becomes large. Many people who shoot don’t like the NRA but, at this time, it’s the best thing we have to support Second Amendment rights.

  • Jay Redmon

    Please explain the reason, then. We’re waiting…….

  • Jay Redmon

    Ady IT was by accident…….

  • Sun Kim

    Just curious…has any of you had to draw your weapon to stop a crime yet?

  • Randy HK-91

    somehow I dont think Kim likes gun rights very much !

  • Randy HK-91

    I left NY stinking state over gun laws -Now in a free state ! I signed up for the CCW class just yesterday and am signing up the wife too-! We Have open carry here and its a non issue !!

  • Jay Redmon

    I have my CCW, as does my wife, my two step-daughters, my son-in-law, my mom and my dad.

  • Randy HK-91

    Move to WA state-where it legal for a doctor to give you the –shot !

  • jimmy z

    Good. I don’t want to feed any of these felons. If they get caught a second time , put them in front of a firing squad. No loss at all. California is a cesspool because of Liberal politics.

  • jimmy z

    When Chicago was forced to issue CC permits a lot of Black people got theirs. The honest Black people hate the Black crime and gang bangers as much as anyone else.

  • jimmy z

    You guys should move to a better neighborhood if you keep getting shot.

  • Sun Kim

    (sigh) Please do your own research. I have actually looked at the NRA tax report in question, have you? More than half the revenue the NRA takes in comes from sources other than membership. Advertising, corporate donations, licensing and a host of other sources have contributed to overall revenues far past membership fees and membership donations. Do a websearch for ‘NRA 2010 Tax form 990’ and you can view the PDF.

    You’re just mad because I showed you how a relatively small number of people can have such a huge political influence.

  • jimmy z

    I’m well hydrated. And what I said made perfect sense. Maybe YOU need a Gatorade.

  • Moonpup

    Please be so kind as to further explain who or what comprises the “blind wearing generation” of whom you speak.

  • Sun Kim

    “Clearly shows what us 35+ year CCW citizens have known all along.”

    What does it clearly show?

  • Moonpup

    So what you’re saying is that the people support the NRA not only with their vote but with their wallet? I’m sure that you’ll claim that arms manufacturers/special interest groups/extra-terrestrials or some other group is providing all that money not the working men and women (large groups of whom are getting arms training now) who are actually donating.

  • Tom Thornburg

    I agree. I have carried for almost 20 years.First a Sig in 357, then 1911 but as an old back wound got worse that 1911 was really heavy. I finally got a light Kimber 1911 Super Carry Pro. I found a trick. Don’t use those 230 gr. bullets too heavy. I switched to 165gr HP. @ 1200 fps. When they hit they mushroom to 90 cal. and do not exit. I would imagine the hole would be like a tennis ball. I’m old school, Vietnam simple is better. Those 165 gr. make the gun feel 1/2 the weight… I would never take a 9mm to a gun fight. The reason their used in the army now was for the Female Troops and recoil. The Combat Troops hate the 9mm, its takes at least 3 rounds to put a man down.
    All Marine Force Recon, SEALS and Army SF are going back to the 1911’s.

    I took at 38 in the chest in 1993. It bounced off my rib slid along my sternum and exited out my arm pit. The impact put my heart out of step and that dropped me. Had I been armed, I still could have gotten a round or two off from the ground and killed the sob. A 9mm is less powerful than a 38. Look at all the Black Rappers who’ve been shot. 50 cents been shot what, 12 times with 9mm’s…. I would never put my life on a 9mm unless you can make a head shot 100% of the time.

    The 1911 has served the military, police, and public for over 100 years. Its still today the choice of the majority of all competition shooters. The Marines just orders 2500 custom 1911 45’s for their people.

    9mm is better than nothing…but I am someone who studied ballistics and history… people shot with a 9mm may go down, but they usually still have enough left to shoot you too. I think the facts will bare this out. I can assure you if 50 cents was shot 12 times with a 45 it would have been way over kill… 1 shot from a 165gr or 185gr 45 both doing over 1100fps expanding to 90 caliber =, lights out.

    I like the 40 cal. but…. My son was shot 4 times in the back after knocking out a Black Drug Dealer. He failed to notice the bodyguard. The last shot was supposed to be a head shot but he missed and nicked the top vertebra but not enough to cause serious damage. The rounds were Truncated Bullets not hollow points. Not one hit a vital organ. They took out two and two just worked themselves out. Now that’s a 40 Cal. too.

    9mm is popular due to light recoil and millions of NATO surplus rounds. The US military tested everything before settling on the 45 cal. There is a reason why the Texas Rangers carried 1911’s, why the US military used it from 1916-1983 and now is going back due to complaints that its not stopping enemy without at least 3 rounds. Our troops are dying because once hit the Rag Head is firing his AK as he his hitting the ground, wounded.

    Your no doubt an excellent shot, but most people are not. The 9mm is just not enough bullet for 1 shot kills. The caliber with the highest 1 shot kill is the 124 gr. 357 magnum @ 1400fps 89% one shot kills. Sig introduced the 357
    Sig round that duplicated the 357 magnum 124gr @ 1400fps. I have one and its deadly. 5″ drop at 100 yards. Lot less recoil than my old Colt 357 Python had.

    The 1911 compact is thinner and lighter than my Sig. That is the only reason I changed. The Sig is fine in a shoulder holster. If I knew I had to go into a Gun Fight…I’d take the SIG in 357. For normal carry and concealment I like the 1911 light, thin compact with 165gr HP. There are two gun worlds out there… the Magazine world and the Real World. The Real World is, 50 cent taking 12 rounds of 9mm, my son taking 4 rounds of 40 cal. Me taking a 38 over the heart… everybody survived. One hit from a Sig 357, or a 165gr or 185gr at 1100fps + and there is no second shot. That is Real World, its also about money. The Sig is $900, the Kimber 1911 $1600, There are a million 9mm out there because people like them. Their easy to shoot, the recoil is light, the guns are mostly inexpensive and 99.99% of the Gun Owners will never shoot anyone. In the Real Word that means you would really be just as safe with a sharp stick, as a 9mm. Unless that one day came, then it all comes down to how much is your life worth ?

    Sorry to be so verbose, Guns and Ballistics are kinda my thing…

  • Sun Kim

    Sure you would. Stay hydrated Jimmy.

  • Big Wes

    “And you can carry all you want in the private spaces that you have permission to occupy.”

    Really? Tell that to Californians.

  • Sun Kim

    Jimmy…I hate to break this to you but crime doesn’t drop because you purchase a firearm or get a CC permit.

  • jimmy z

    If that’s what’s keeping the crooks out, then yes.

  • jimmy z

    Sun, we want the crime rate to drop even further , that’s why.

  • Dan H Kelly Jr

    That’s a fact Jack.

  • jimmy z

    THIS COMING FROM AN ANTI GUN NUT.

  • jimmy z

    LMAO! The only thing he’s done right.

  • Sun Kim

    Thumbs up. I agree with your points. What would probably be a better report would be to see how verifiable (as opposed to self-reported) defensive gun use has increased or decreased. Are the people with the new CCWs stopping more crime from happening? What are the stats on the dark side of CCW…Has the gun offense rate increased among the CCW holders than from previous years when there were fewer? I think these question are better and more focused.

  • grifhunter

    And you can carry all you want in the private spaces that you have permission to occupy.

  • Sun Kim

    You’re right, it does leave a mess…a big mess…and unless they’re doing it out in the woods or in an isolated area, someone has to pay to clean it up (ie taxpayers or living family members). Here in L.A. a few years back, a guy did just that…blew his head off with a shotgun…and he did it in his rented storage unit with the door closed on a Saturday night. They found him on Monday. I think people would take a cyanide pill or the chemical equivalent if that was an option.

  • Sun Kim

    My bad…I see what your saying now…and my apologies about your father. I will edit my comment.

  • Sun Kim

    And low information conservative Republicans like Melanie are jumping for joy like the finish line at the special olympics.

    Increasing CCP and decreasing overall violent crime rates is not proof that one caused the other We stupid liberals that wasted our time studying social statistics call that a correlation. The overall violent crime rate is influenced by many factors and, even John Lott will tell you, guns in the hands of private citizens may have a level of influence on overall crime rate but is probably not one of the major factors. Higher incarceration rates, more prisons, better policing techniques, improving economy and even expanding social welfare programs have an impact on the overall violent crime rate.

  • Moderate

    I agree with you that I’m not sure the connection can be made. I would have liked to see the stats go back to 1990 or earlier years. From the stats I’ve seen, there was a much larger murder rate drop in the 90s (9.8 in 1991 to 5.5 in 2000) but am guessing there wasn’t a major increase in CCW permits over those years.

    I myself am okay with CCW permits, but am of the opinion that training should be required at a controlled and nominal (if any) cost to the applicant. I feel in public places it is critical that a gun holder is well-trained and knows what to do with the weapon in the situations that can come up.

  • notfishing

    Reading comprehension 101. The health insurance didn’t do the cutting up, the hospital and surgeon did. The health insurance company would rather he had died without all the bills.

    I see the Empathy and understanding is something that is deficient in your comment.

    As to the most efficient suicide a shotgun in the mouth works every time with little suffering although it does leave a mess.

  • Sun Kim

    Interesting note: I’m not sure about other states but here in California, if someone gets a drug sales charge (intent to distribute can actually be a relatively small amount), they are not eligible for food stamps and many other social welfare programs when they get out of prison and its is tough to get a job with a felony on their record…so a lot of them go back to selling drugs.

  • Sun Kim

    LOL.

  • Sun Kim

    The Patriot Act and Edward Snowden have shown us that privacy is a thing of the past. Too bad there isn’t a privacy right group that is equivalent to the size and power of the NRA.

  • Sun Kim

    Certain forms of suicides have higher failure rates than others. For instance, people have a higher chance of surviving an attempted overdose vs surviving a gunshot wound to the head. The method of suicide has an impact on the outcome.

  • Sun Kim

    My sister’s friend blew her brains while her kids were waiting for her in the car. My neighbor shot his whole family and them himself. My best friend’s brother in law tried to hang himself…but the rope broke and he just ended up hurting and scarring his neck really bag (but he’s back working at Walmart now). So…what does that mean.

  • Sun Kim

    What is interesting is how the author is suggesting that falling overall murder rates are somehow due to increase in CCW but does not present any compelling evidence that makes that link clear.

  • FollowDaMoney

    They violate the 4th by finger printing, etc. to give you consent to exercise your 2nd.

  • Sun Kim

    You father was hacked to death by a health insurance company? LOL.

    What a drama queen!

    By the way, I’m not following your first sentence. What is one of the most efficient methods of non-assisted suicide that is politically correct?

  • FollowDaMoney

    Technically you are giving notice to the local government so they can plan for appropriate services? You still can have all the rallies you want without a permit in non publicly owned locations.

  • Sun Kim

    Oh puhleez.

    Let me ask you a stupid ‘liberal’ question: if crime in your neighborhood was dropping precipitously, would you be putting up new bars on your windows and barbwire on your fence?

  • notfishing

    Actually it was to confiscate the powder which was kept in the powder-house in the middle of town. It was easy to get. Which brings up another point of an oppressive government — it will always do what is easy. (like oppressing it’s own citizenry)

  • notfishing

    It’s interesting how one of the most efficient methods of non-assisted suicide is politically correct but if you can get a Doctor / Nurse to assist it’s acceptable by the Politically Correct.

    I’ve seen the Politically Correct Medical-Industrial Complex Butcher my father to get as much money out of his health insurance as possible for a year. Not for me I’m going to take a walk in the high mountains and hopefully there’ll be deep snow.

  • Sun Kim

    It is not Obama that drove gun sales…….it was your unsubstantiated fear that he was going to take your guns away from you. You should be thanking that advertising and marking propaganda machine of the gun industry and groups for pulling your strings and making you dance while filling their pockets. Violent crime has been dropping since 93′
    but the gun industry and gun groups have convinced you all that things are getting worse and you need guns now more than ever when the opposite case is the logical one…if crime is dropping, why ring the fire alarm to arm yourself against criminals?

  • Sun Kim

    Everyone is so worried about their 2nd Amendment rights being infringed upon they seem to have turned a blind eye to the fact the 4th Amendment (privacy) has been stripped and left out in the cold.

  • notfishing

    Truth to Power of Political Correctness but will Power listen??

  • Sun Kim

    Don’t kid yourself Moonpup. The NRA had a QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS in revenue in 2010 according to their tax papers (I’m guessing they topped that in 2014). The NRA has one of the most powerful lobbying arms of any special interest group in the country AND has a highly active voting block. According to a recent Oxfam report 1% of the world has the same wealth as the other 99% combined. I’m bring that up to illustrate that you don’t need big numbers to have wealth or power or political influence….so your question of ‘how can anyone believe that a relatively small group can have such overwhelming influence?’ is easily answered.

    Capisce?

  • Sun Kim

    Nice correlation between the increase in CCW and falling violent crime / murder rate (preliminary). Now all you have to do is present clear evidence that one is causing the other and its case closed. So…can you prove it?

  • grifhunter

    Suicide is just as easy with a shotgun or deer rifle as a concealable handgun.
    Also, a rope and a chair will do nicely when those arn’t available.

  • Goose

    Yeah , they just drag their feet once they get their money first.

  • logwarrior

    John, you are correct about suicides. You should be ecstatic because it
    is usually white men. The reason for this is because most of these men
    have lived their lives supporting families, being responsible, helping
    their neighbors, and living an independent life. When they pass a
    certain age, if you look into the stats, these men have usually been
    diagnosed with a terminal illness or something like Alzheimer’s. They
    don’t want to lose their life savings on medical care that will only
    extend their lives by a bit while being in excruciating pain. They would
    prefer to not be a burden on their families. They make a conscious
    choice to go out on their own terms as men. I wouldn’t expect someone
    like you to understand that. It is a foreign idea for so many of your ilk and generation, but I respect them for doing it. Another reason they commit suicide is because they have lost their wives. For most of these men it is like losing a part of themselves. There is no shame in what they do. They leave the world on their terms and the family benefits because the remember their grandfather as a fun, nice, honorable etc. man as opposed to someone they saw with Alzheimer’s at the end stage of their lives.

    The more important statistic is the decrease in murders which are usually younger people who have so much life left which is cut short. I don’t know from the statistics given, but would suppose, that Justifiable Homicides have risen with the increase of CCW meaning that those living the thug life are being pruned from the tree of society, which benefits society as a whole. It is a win-win situation.

  • grifhunter

    Yes, you need permits to have parades or political rallys in public spaces or streets. This has been found constitutional even though it infringes (minimally) on the First Amendment.

  • Goose

    Just jumping off a bridge is an option also. I’m going to do a swan dive into the grand canyon when I’m old and sick . This way I can give back to nature. Coyotes and buzzards have to eat too.

  • Goose

    Money

  • Goose

    The one’s that haven’t F’ed up their life already will.

  • Goose

    You want suicide, just start your car ,close the garage door,and you’ll never know you died. Don’t need a gun for that.

  • markrb

    3 months??? Wow. I had mine within 3 weeks of the interview with the Sheriff. It did take about a month though, to get to see the Sheriff because of the large number of people who were in the class.

  • markrb

    I’m lucky to live in the Sierra foothills near Yosemite and our Sheriff is VERY pro-gun. He encourages everyone that is able and law abiding to be armed and trained. He realizes that the response time for his deputies means that residents may have to deal with the problem. Good luck and keep safe.

  • Goose

    I agree. When I got my permit here in FL , 8 out of the 10 applying that day were women. Just me , and one other guy. They should make it inexpensive, as long as you can qualify . Here in FL last week the governor just make them expedite any service members applications because of the shootings at the recruitment office.Only took 3 months to get mine anyway though.

  • cje

    Not quite right…the tories longed for the good old days. They didn’t want any change. The tories were the conservatives of the 1770’s.

  • Darren Graham

    This side of the debate well represented.

  • The Moogly

    According to the US Supreme Court it is unconstitutional to:

    Charge a fee for the exercising of a right (Harper v Virginia Board of Elections 1966);
    Require a precondition on the exercising of a right (Guinn v US 1915, Lane v Wilson 1939);
    Require a license (government permission) to exercise a right (Murdock v PA 1943, Lowell v City of Griffin 1939, Freedman v MD 1965, Near v MN 1931, Miranda v AZ 1966)

  • eazy

    Oh ye of the blind wearing generation…..

  • Jesse Carpenter II

    I DON`T SEE ANY LOCAL HELP EITHER. WHO KNOWS WHAT LURKS IN THE SHADOWS. JUST BE CAREFUL.

  • Richard King

    …and I thought Obama hadn’t done anything positive during his time in office. Obviously, I was wrong.

  • Moonpup

    Let’s see: “5.2% of the total adult population has a permit” and the NRA’s membership is only 1.5% of US; could that possibly mean that more people are interested in firearms than those that join the NRA? And how can anyone believe that an organization that has barely more than 1% of the population can have an overwhelming influence on Congress? Guess that “the Big Lie technique” is still alive and well among certain groups.

  • FollowDaMoney

    We will see. Barry will need outside support from somewhere to make that happen. Not seeing any local support.

  • Chilibreath

    Just trade “that pesky 2nd Amendment” in my posted comment with “the the right to keep and bear arms” and then we’re both happy. We are a free and independent nation because our citizens were armed back in the day against one of the mightiest armies in the world. Point, set and match!

  • FollowDaMoney

    Why do you need a permit to exercise your 2nd amendment Right? Do you have a permit to exercise your 1st amendment Rights? Need one for your 4th and 5th? Why is the 2nd different? How come you let the Government violate your 4th to allow you to exercise your 2nd?

  • Jesse Carpenter II

    NO,, BUT IF OBAMA HAS HIS WAY. WE WON`T BE AROUND MUCH LONGER ANYWAY.

  • FollowDaMoney

    Barry is just letting more into the country. He would be singing a different tune if it weren’t for the SS.

  • FollowDaMoney

    Question for everyone? Do you need a permit to exercise any other Constitutional Rights? Do you need 6 hours of training, pay a fee, background check, meet certain age, and get tongue printed every 5 years to run off at the mouth?

  • 2mules

    Matt do you know why the Minutemen met the British at Concord and Lexington on April 19, 1775? The Brits were on their way to Lexington to confiscate weapons from the Patriots and the “Tory’s” [liberals of that period] supported the Red Coats.

  • 2mules

    Did you miss the story in the news about the black woman, from the CITY, who killed herself in jail with a plastic garbage bag? You were saying?

  • 2mules

    Do not confine the feeling to White people. Even jesse Jackson said that when he hears someone walking up behind him and turns around to see who it is, he is relieved to see a white person.

  • Matt Paris

    Not to nit pick, but I think you mean December 15, 1791…

  • 2mules

    john, you need to print your statement a few hundred times in hopes that if you tell a lie often enough people will begin to believe it.

  • 2mules

    Thank you Obama. You have done more for gun rights than anyone I can think of. Because of your idiocy about guns, sales have gone thru the roof, concealed carry permits have gone thru the roof, women have started carrying in droves and more people are supporting the 2nd Amendment. Yes, I thank you, all the “gun nuts” thank you and the NRA thanks you.

  • Victoria Hitchcock

    Also in CA and got mine earlier this year. It ended up costing me about $500 and a year of processing by the time I had the permit in hand. I’m fortunate enough to have that money and time, but I feel horrible for other women who are broke after a divorce from an abusive spouse who is stalking her who doesn’t have that luxury.

  • Chilibreath

    Ah yes that pesky 2nd Amendment, confounding liberals since 1776. And shame on armed law-abiding citizens for having the temerity to actually want to defend themselves from the freaks of society.

  • Conrarian

    Still obsessing on suicides……..

  • markrb

    I have my CCW and live in California. It only cost me $110 to exercise my Second Amendment right. Fortunately, the county I live in offers the training for free, so that cost isn’t added as well. I guess liberals don’t want poor people to be able to defend themselves. Funny how they scream about a $10 voter ID, but are silent about this fee.

  • Icemancold

    And your stats are incorrect. People in rural areas are safer and more trained in the use of guns than those in the city. so your statement falls on its face.!!

  • markrb

    John, will you stop with the suicide carp already. The two people I’ve known that committed suicide, both women, used pills. So STFU already.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    well, you would have to ban rope, knives, pills, and poisons. If people want to commit suicide, that is a mental problem, not a tool problem.

  • Vernon Cunningham

    yep, or couild sell more food stamps and use less drugs.

  • mrgotrocks

    You sheeple are the problem.Guns don’t kill people sheeple kill people

  • Vernon Cunningham

    Blacks bring on the cautionary feelings of whites and others. Even in the black community there is a fear of the punks and rioters. If a white sees one or more blacks approaching them, how are they to know if these are punks bent on robbery or just some young folk walking by? Too many stories about pepople getting robbed or mobbed. So I carry, and am careful. it is not my desire to shoot anyone, but If pushed into a corner, I will, with prejudice. ( Not racial prejudice. that is a different sort.)

  • Roscoe

    LOL… you’re funny!

  • Vernon Cunningham

    Well if this is a “mess”, then I welcome it. Notice crime is down where people have guns. If people want to kill themselves that is a personal matter and they will do so whether that have a gun or not. It is the mindset, not the tool used than matters. And criminals will get cheapguns no matter where from.

  • John

    Now, just stop them from committing suicide….. rural staters.

  • John

    Let’s play guess who will commit suicide.

    Stats say rural gunowners under 22 and older ones over 63 more than likely. That’s the biggest use for conceal weapons…. and being “stolen” or “lost,” thus eventually getting into hands of criminals…. Thanks gun nuts for creating this mess.

  • brad

    Weird..the liberals run an article (if you can call it that) a few times a month with a graph showing gun ownership declining…and it HAS to be true,because the graph had brightly colored bars and everything on it.This article sums up what I have been saying for years…gun ownership is not declining…people arent getting rid of their guns…people just dont think it is any of anyone elses business what they own or dont own.Just because drs are allowed to ask by law,doesnt mean you are required by law to tell them.Whether someone owns a gun or not is irrelevant to their medical care…unless theyre there for a gunshot wound,then I suppose it would be ok to inquire.People realized that they could not rely on the govt to protect them…but the truth is,they never could.Police,while necessary are RESPONDERS…they only come AFTER stuff has already happened.We are all responsible for our own security.The gun control people would love for us to believe that they are changing hearts and minds,reality is much different.Gun control already has every supporter it will ever get.It is the same fringe group with some money behind it that lobbies govt to infringe gun rights…all the while complaining about the NRA who’s members are citizens who vote using contributions to lobby govt to leave gun rights alone.They just dont understand that the NRA is not a living breathing thing.Look at where the money behing gun control comes from,and tell me who is tryign to help america and who is trying to further the liberal agenda.

  • Jay Flywheel

    Even more would if they could pass a background check.

  • mikeFH

    Clearly shows what us 35+ year CCW citizens have known all along. Liberal, Hyperventilating Media, has controlled the Double Speak, for so many years, promulgating pure nonsense about armed citizenry. My biggest problem with CCW…. the Bluing has worn off my third daily carry weapon in 35 years. Now have a new compact 9mm M&P polymer frame , blackened stainless slide, crimson trace laser. A Very Nice piece of equipment, carried in pocket holster, no one can detect. Keep up on your training, be safe, punch paper regularly…. this is what America needs… More Prepared Citizenry, not ignorant ” Community Organhosers”

  • Cr Scott

    Makes it tough to be a criminal these days. Violent crime should be a high-risk and extremely hazardous occupation.

  • Dan H Kelly Jr

    So why don’t African Americans apply for their CCWs? Oh, Wait! That’s right! They do!

  • David Anderson

    It helps if you actually read the whole article………
    At the bottom of page 2 there is a full copy of the study in PDF that includes the references and sources.

  • Paul McClain

    great news,so it should be…I hope more obtain one…I am also getting one…love the 2nd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Non Slacker

    Does this mean Obama has been good for “traditional America”. Obama is bitter medicine. You hate him being president, but the affect has been good.
    So why are the “traditional Americans” not praising him. In 2016 America, we will wake up on Wednesday morning to “celebrate” a total domination of American governance by the GOP right.
    If on the other hand, things do not work out this way, “traditional American” is likely to barf up this bitter medicine and with all these guns go ‘Roof berserk’ against the negro populace and others.
    Anyway you look at it, the future does not look good for African Americans. The taste of this bitter medicine will never erase.

  • Melanie Mustain Bivens

    All that popping noise you are hearing…………………………………………………….liberals and democrats heads are exploding because the proof is here. The higher number of CCP, the lower the murder rate, wow, I just heard another pop, LOL.

  • MissoHawney

    As a carry permit holder
    I have no felony convictions – lifetime
    I have no Class A or B misdemeanors within the last 5 years
    I passed both State and Federal fingerprint and background checks
    I have had no delinquent conduct within the past 10 years
    I am not delinquent in child support, student loans or state or local taxes.

  • dblamp2

    The greatest gun salesman in history is Barack Obama

  • R. L Lewis

    Personal Responsibility is what is needed. Madd Mothers were Smart enough to place the Blame on the Drivers instead of the cars. A Vote for any democrat is a Vote to give up Your Guns and Civil Rights. Obama and Liberals are going after Legal and Law Abiding American Citizens not the Criminals who are Responsible for the Violence.

  • William Later

    Three statements are interesting:

    They contradict the claims of the left

    Between 2007 and 2014, murder rates have fallen from 5.6 to 4.2
    (preliminary estimates) per 100,000. This represents a 25% drop in the
    murder rate at the same time that the percentage of the adult population
    with permits soared by 156%. Overall violent crime also fell by 25
    percent over that period of time.

    States with the largest increase in permits have seen the largest relative drops in murder rates.

    Concealed handgun permit holders are extremely law-abiding. In
    Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors or
    felonies at one-sixth the rate that police officers are convicted.

  • James Leedy

    Obama has made the country a more dangerous place. More people are having to rely on themselves for their own safety> The police are being attacked at every level. Gang violence is increasing with little or no gains in controlling them.
    Our Federal government is not protecting it citizens from domestic terrorism, it waste money like crazy in funding Planned parenthood, ineffective welfare programs, expensive useless military projects and countless grants to study a ant in who knows where. . While a war against law and order is ongoing in this country.

  • abobinmn

    Way to go Elena63!

  • Andy

    The bad thing about this article is; Now you never know when you go to Rob, Rape, or Assault someone that they might pull a gun and shoot you !

  • Elena63

    After watching what the bungler-in-chief is doing in terms of handling illegal invaders, black criminals & handcuffing law enforcement from doing their jobs, I went for NRA basic pistol, got my first handgun & concealed carry permit last year. I go to the range at least once a month & have gotten additional training.

  • Gary Schwab

    What is the source for the graphs used?

  • MadgringoUSMC

    Got my permit specifically because of the Fraud in Chief. Two days after it’s first election. Knew the guy was trouble from the get go.

  • shadowlee

    Sure does not say much for confidence of government.