Lloyd Blankfein, CEO and Chairman of Goldman Sachs, spoke with Bloomberg TV’s Erik Schatzker and Stephanie Ruhle today at the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland. Blankfein discussed the performance of Goldman Sachs, the impact of regulation on the financial industry and the outlook for the industry.
On regulation, Blankfein said: “If you ask me how much time do I spend thinking about regulation, and rules and that kind of compliance, all the time. But it doesn’t push out other things. It’s like background noise. It’s like music.”
Blankfein said the world is “still highly affected by” the financial crisis. “China is an economy that is almost the size of the U.S. economy, soon will be bigger. And that’s going through a slump. Europe is, which is a bigger population than the United States is coming out of a slump and still grinding.”
Lloyd Blankfein More Optimistic About 2015 Than 2014
STEPHANIE RUHLE: Lloyd, in 2009 Goldman Sachs set the record for trading revenue. Last week we looked at the numbers and they are worse than they have been in a decade. What is happening in trading? Have you lost your groove?
Lloyd Blankfein: Oh my goodness. It’s — it was a — it was a real — you know it’s very funny because so much has changed in the month since the end — since the half of month since last year ended. We did fine in trading. Our ROE was pretty good in an — in a market which was otherwise marked by low volatility and low volumes.
And if you recall the headlines from just a month ago were the markets, you know people withdrawing from the trading businesses, the markets would never move again. They had an intellectual underpinning (INAUDIBLE) because the central banks had put so much liquidity it acted like a blanket on markets. And you roll the clock forward to today and it’s a massive amount of volatility, a massive amount of volumes going through, people needing to adjust the portfolio.
And all of a sudden there we are again acting as an intermediary in difficult markets, helping our clients do things. So the fact of the matter is, is we did very well in trading each of the last several years. Obviously ’09 was a record, but by the way, just to remind you, in ’08, which was a horrible year, I was being asked are we getting out of investment banking, are we getting out of trading because there was no more need for intermediation or investment banking services.
Five minutes later ’09 was the record year. So here we were writing off the sales and trading businesses in ’13 and here we are in ’14 where we were able to help our clients navigate very difficult, complex and quite active markets.
ERIK SCHATZKER: Lloyd, what does it say about the environment in which Goldman Sachs is operating and your industry that 11 percent ROE is, I think in your words, pretty good?
Lloyd Blankfein: I think you meant 11.2 percent ROE.
SCHATZKER: We should be precise.
Lloyd Blankfein: Well I’m telling you I’m in a precision business and those last 0.2 were very hard, well took a lot of work.
RUHLE: Hard to earn.
SCHATZKER: I’m sure they were.
Lloyd Blankfein: Thank you.
SCHATZKER: So what does it say?
Lloyd Blankfein: I’d say that we’re still in a period, apropos the last question, we’re still reeling. And I think we, I mean the world, from the effects of the very big trauma growth is still slow around the world, accelerating in the United States, hardly, you know hardly robust in Europe, in other words very calm, very low growth in Europe, very ambiguous where China is coming out now.
And all the — everything that we do, our role, our social role, our economic role and in fact the ability to earn money comes from with us confidence and correlation with growth. And so a low growth or a slow growth environment is not going to be the optimal set for us. As markets growth people do engage in activity. We advise them. We manage their risky assets and we finance them.
RUHLE: What does your social role actually mean, because I hear social role from you, the CEO of Goldman. When I speak to traders, salespeople, bankers I never hear about the social role. And when I’m on analyst calls no one talks about it.
Lloyd Blankfein: Well you don’t talk — the nature of an economic system is everybody pursues their interests, and the collective pursues the interests of the whole. We finance growth. We — people come to us, need, ask us how to invest their money. Other people come to us with ideas who want to finance their activities.
We are — we’re early investors in Uber and Alibaba, clean tech companies, all sorts of companies that today provide a lot of important services and employ a lot of people. And — and we by putting our money to work we also bring in other people’s money who look to us to manage their money. And so we are that nexus between those who need capital and those who provide capital.
RUHLE: Do you still believe in Uber even though it’s in such a beat down right now?
Lloyd Blankfein: Do I believe in Uber, like I mean when I take out the — when I take out my phone, press it and a cab shows up in a few minutes, do I believe that cab is real and do I get in? Yes.
RUHLE: But do you….
SCHATZKER: Do you believe in — do you believe in tech valuations at these levels?
Lloyd Blankfein: Uber is a private company. It does financings at (INAUDIBLE).
SCHATZKER: Not just Uber, everywhere.
Lloyd Blankfein: I think they do financing. I’m not sure it’s a (INAUDIBLE). We’ll see about these things. And things don’t have a value because I designate it. There’s a market for these things.
SCHATZKER: Sure. But you’ve seen price go up and down.
Lloyd Blankfein: The answer is I think it is a very big disruptive force. It does a great job. Do I (INAUDIBLE)?
SCHATZKER: No, no. I’m not just talking about Uber in general, technology valuations.
Lloyd Blankfein: It’s….
SCHATZKER: Particularly in the startups.
Lloyd Blankfein: I will have a very clear answer in hindsight.
RUHLE: Good answer. Listen, when we talk Uber it makes me think regulation. And regulation makes me think banking. When we talk to — when we hear from guys like Jamie Dimon it makes it sound like the supervisory pressure….
Lloyd Blankfein: And I’m not Jamie Dimon, I mean Jamie Dimon.
RUHLE: Correct. The pressure banks are under from the regulators just seems oppressive at this point. Would you agree?
Lloyd Blankfein: Well I don’t know. I feel pretty — you know I feel pretty sunny.
RUHLE: You do?
Lloyd Blankfein: Yes. I mean it’s a fact of life. We’re dealing with the regulation, regulatory….
RUHLE: When you think regulation you feel sunny?
Lloyd Blankfein: No. I’m saying you don’t say oppressed. I mean I’m not — I’m not bowled over